How many kids do you know definitely leaving private for state?

[Quodraceratops]

I'd be very interested to know how many children people know of who are definitely leaving their private school for a state school - not people with plans to do so in future years, solely those definitely going now / in 2025.
For myself - large Scottish all years school, I only have knowledge of my early primary kids's classes - no-one leaving so far (but I'm guessing early primary may be less affected as Labour have been signalling this policy for a while so you wouldn't start if you couldn't afford VAT).

The most basic reading comprehension would tell you that this was "pointing out how completely stupid the 'not a charity' dog whistle is."

Since these behaviours from charities are "pretty normal"

But yes, ignore that I'm very clear that I'm calling out the difference between how people talk about those charities and the populist attack on private schools. Which you further illustrated.

Cos those poshos deserve it. it's punching up, so there's no need to actually think about it. Just enjoy.

@strawberrybubblegum the most basic reading comprehension would tell you that a charity like the National Trust/RHS which is accessible to the entire population if they chose to visit, with minimal barriers to entry, is completely different to a charity which can accept, by definition, a tiny number of people with very high barriers to entry.

500,000 people visited Attingham Park alone, close to the number of private school children in the whole country.

So no, not the same at all.

You don't have to believe me if you don't want to (though I assure you it's true). I'm not in the business of naming schools, so there's no point in a 'he said, she said'. The point is, there are a significant number of schools who actually do way more than the minimum they need to do in order to meet their charitable obligations. Eton, like it or not, is one (not my kids' school). But I imagine it will be far harder for schools to convince their fee-paying parents to continue funding charitable work that goes above and beyond the minimum, now that they're being hit with 20% VAT. It doesn't exactly engender an altruistic mood.

Oh riiiggght... so it's the number of people involved that makes the difference.

Except it's not. There's always a justification. And that's all it is - some bullshit invented after the fact for whatever biased, populist dogwhistle you're currently responding to. Never fact-checked. No analytical thought engaged.

You don't need to think. Private schools are evidently the bad guys.

@potionsmaster is right about the loss of altruistic mood. Mine has all gone. No point in feeling altruistic towards people who have clearly decided to out-group you for their own smug gratification.

Well, quite.

Parents don't send their children to PS out of some altruistic motivation to save the state the money it would cost if they went to state school!

They do it to benefit their child(ren).

Historically the 'public schools' were set up for boys whose parents couldn't afford private tutors, which was the norm for the elite. So it was charitable. Now an exclusive education is claimed to be 'charitable' because it is education - no matter how much it excludes.

Well according is to Wickham's website, their community programmes are primarily to benefit their own pupils, broaden their horizons, provide them with the satisfaction of acts of service etc.

Is this just a spin to make it look better? Are they really only in it for the tax breaks?

@strawberrybubblegum what haven't I fact checked?

What's dog whistle about it.

So far, you've dismissed every statistic or face given as biased and countered with the Eton website.

Also worth noting that the Charities Commission was originally set up in response to numerous reports into the poor state of charitable education and the misappropriation of funds in the early to mid 19th Century.

Of course parents don't choose private school for altruistic reasons. But a lot of them are actually pretty happy to accept that, in return for their own privilege, they will effectively contribute a chunk of their fees for charitable reasons - whether that's contributing to bursaries, or lending the swimming pool to primaries, or lending out other staff resource (eg specialist teacher outreach etc). My point is that many of those patents will be very much less willing to accept that now, and will be pressuring their schools to spend less money on this kind of stuff so that they can offset more of the VAT cost.

What's dog whistle about it.

Private schools aren't real charities
All private schools get so much for pretending to be charities
Even if they do good, it's just for selfish reasons

what haven't I fact checked

What any private schools (those who actually are charities) charitable aims are

What they actually do

Whether that is an appropriate social contribution for the minimal benefit they get for historically having been set up as charities

So far, you've dismissed every statistic or face given as biased

A load of crap has been spouted. If you stop making shit up, I'll stop dismissing it.

And there was significant electoral fraud in the 18th century.

Does this have any bearing on democracy in the UK now?

(No comment on the governments who are eventually elected...)

Electoral fraud is always relevant.

Reform was sailing close to the wind in this year’s GE for instance.

Even if they do good, it's just for selfish reasons.

Of course it's not just for selfish reasons. But it's not just for altruistic reasons either.

I would be more inclined to accept the altruistic reasoning if posters didn't keep threatening to take it away if things aren't to their liking.

You misunderstand.

I mean: does the fact that measures were brought in during the 18th century to prevent electoral fraud imply that there is still significant electoral fraud now? No.

Similarly: does the fact that measures were brought in during the 19th century to prevent educational charities from misappropriating funds imply that there is still significant misuse of funds in educational charities now? No.

it's not just for altruistic reasons either

So???

It doesn't need to be.

Or they play other private wchools because games usually happen on a Saturday when state school kids don't have to attend. But whatever fits your narrative.

I would be more inclined to accept the altruistic reasoning if posters didn't keep threatening to take it away if things aren't to their liking.

If you want people to feel engaged with society, then you need to be nice to them. Not call them selfish, greedy cheats - even as you take their money.

Would you feel altruistic towards someone who behaved that way towards you??

It's not really a threat, it's just the reality of what happens when you squeeze affordability. By paying 20% VAT, parents will feel that they are paying a massively increased 'public good' levy (because this is money that the government says it will spend on state schools), so why should they continue to pay other 'public good' donations as well. In fact, my kids' school has told parents very firmly that continuing the same level of bursary funding is non negotiable, regardless of the 20%, because it is the right thing to do, but I think lots of less secure schools will find it extremely difficult to maintain that position.

@ichundich plenty of our state school matches are played on a Saturday morning.

Also, nothing stopping private schools choosing to play matches on a weeknight either.

And have you actually fact-checked to understand why those matches aren't happening?

Or just jumped to a conclusion that fits your anti-private bias?

No obviously I haven't checked with every school in the country.

But the poster claiming that private schools only play each other because state schools won't play them hasn't either.

In response to the pp charmingly saying "they could never lower themselves to play against the local plebs"

Similarly: does the fact that measures were brought in during the 19th century to prevent educational charities from misappropriating funds imply that there is still significant misuse of funds in educational charities now? No.

And yet we have a Charity Commission to ensure that charities clearly define their charitable objectives and can be held accountable - and provides specific guidance to private schools to ensure that the public benefit provided is more than minimal or a token.