How many kids do you know definitely leaving private for state?

[Quodraceratops]

I'd be very interested to know how many children people know of who are definitely leaving their private school for a state school - not people with plans to do so in future years, solely those definitely going now / in 2025.
For myself - large Scottish all years school, I only have knowledge of my early primary kids's classes - no-one leaving so far (but I'm guessing early primary may be less affected as Labour have been signalling this policy for a while so you wouldn't start if you couldn't afford VAT).

@pintofsnakebite - if you want a fairer society with more wage equality for all, then surely it is a good thing if those at the top hogging the best salaries take a step back, pay less tax, work less. Then it will all adjust itself. You really cannot have it both ways.

Yep, this is what's happening en masse with GPs, consultants etc. Crowds of lower paid queueing to get their places

Why is education being VAT exempt a subsidy?

Government doesn't usually pay part or all of private school fees, parents pay

Is everything VAT exempt (or zero rated) be considered subsidised, like food, children's clothes, newspaper, insurance?

that would change the meaning of 'subsidy' (https://dictionary.cambridge.org/dictionary/english/subsidy)

To those of you campaigning in on behalf of private schools, please could you go find out exactly how many parents in the private sector used the state sector at one point, for one or more children. I think it is relevant. Because the Government are lying to the public, they are pretending that they are only taxing the super rich private school families only.
The more lies we have peddled the more likely Reform is going to get in in the future. So we all have a legitimate interest there.

@Araminta1003

15% in my DCs prep moved from state due to poor provision

So much agree with your point re Reform - Labour are screwing it big time, we won't see improvements by 2029, they will bleat about "it was soooo bad we need another term", Tory won't recover by then. I fully anticipate Reform will have a field day. God help us

about a third in year 7 in DD's school (London senior school, day) come from state primaries each year.

At the start of this term two girls from DD's form (year 9) have gone back to state (they had come from state pramiries in year 7). One of them have a brother still in private sixth form (different school)

In London at least it's very common in the day schools for 30% to 40% year 7 entry from state primaries. Similarly, every year a number of them go to grammar schools or specialist sixth form colleges (KCMS etc) after GCSE.

Anecdotally in my DD's class, there has been loads of movement between state and private - state to private, private to state and private to private. 5 in the class of 19, in its current form, have been private all the way through.

Both my DC went to state primary and then private secondary.

A significant number of children in DS2s school have moved from the state sector - in fact all of those I know personally apart from one boy who is there as he lives in the middle of nowhere and it was the best option to enable his parents to work . Anecdotally everyone I speak to complains about the VAT - I don’t know anyone moving immediately but I don’t know anyone who is now going to stay on for sixth form ( DS2 is GCSE age) .

I think there will be issues in finding enough state places at the key changeover points so reception and yr3 ,yr7 and 12 going forward . I’m already a bit worried about DS1 retaining his grammar school place for sixth form up against any mega bright kids trying to move across and DS2 trying to move back into the State Sector ( we moved him for year 9)

@Putmeinsummer i completely agree with you on the grammar front. The chances of getting in to a grammar school here is very slim and the number sitting the 11+ has (I have heard but can’t validate) has gone up significantly this year. Last year from DDs good state primary, only 2 kids made it into the excellent grammar out of 60. Some others 3/4 max made it into a grammar that is miles away and requires two buses through some very rough areas. Of course not everyone sat the 11plus but those odds do not feel good! The local school options are not great.

The other problem that having a grammar/private/state system is that there doesn’t feel like there is much of a local community of children living locally and walking to a local school. I feel like this could massively impact social isolation etc.

We considered private and could have afforded to put one child through no issues. With two children this becomes very tight and so for now we have not gone down that route - in part driven by the VAT policy.

We will consider moving before secondary school so that we can live somewhere that has a good local school with a good local community around it. Not sure where though!

Dd isn't going private. Currently in yr 6.

Ds will move out of private for 6th form he's currently year 10.

The fees have gone up 25% since ds started in 2021 and an extra 20% is just unaffordable long term. We will see ds through the phase he's in.

When he started fees for two children would have been £3200 a month, now its £4,800 a month and on top of all the other rises just unaffordable. without the VAT it would be £4000.

In a way it's a relief.

We have worked out if we overpay our mortgage by 2k a month we can pay it off in 8 years. We can then put lots into pension to avoid the loss of personal allowance.

We will not spend the money on other Vatable goods so it will be a cost to the tax payer rather than a gain from our family.

Yes if we did state school instead, we would overpay our mortgage rather spending it elsewhere - so no immediate advantage to society. A slight disadvantage as another child moving into state sector.

I don’t think private schools should be seen as charities, but I also don’t think this policy will bring in significant amounts of money as a lot of children will leave and only the super rich will be able to afford to privately educate, widening the gap if anything.

I "rocked up" because someone, very early on, was crying about how contextual university offers are an attack on private school pupils which is nonsense.

Then someone else was claiming that there wasn't the capacity in sixth forms for private school pupils which I countered.

If you're unhappy about the 'debate being broadened' then perhaps you should take it up with those posters.

If this thread were just a mundane list of posters saying 'none from my school' '2 from mine' I would not have posted on it.

'The sheer charitable largess of allowing state school children to play football with them is extraordinary.'

Isn't it???In fact, none of the private schools in our city play football against state schools, only private schools - want to know why? The state school teams are MUCH much better and they got sick of losing.
Which is what happens when you have a larger school population which is truly competitive...
And as for the 'we share our facilities with state schools' blurb... I've yet to find a private school that 'shares' their facilities without charging market rates... our grassroots football clubs rents pitches for training from local schools, mostly state, and the facilities are excellent 4/5G all weather pitches with flood lights. The private schools aren't any better but want significantly more money for the hire.
Our city's famous girls school has a whole load of twaddle about how they 'share' their pool with the local community... they RENT their pool out. RENT it to private swimming outfits who do private group lessons. Which is fine, obvs, but don't make it sound like you're benefitting any community when what you're actually ding is rent a pool to a private company charging mostly MC parents for swimming lessons.

'The sheer charitable largess of allowing state school children to play football with them is extraordinary.'

Isn't it???In fact, none of the private schools in our city play football against state schools, only private schools - want to know why? The state school teams are MUCH much better and they got sick of losing.
Which is what happens when you have a larger school population which is truly competitive...
And as for the 'we share our facilities with state schools' blurb... I've yet to find a private school that 'shares' their facilities without charging market rates... our grassroots football clubs rents pitches for training from local schools, mostly state, and the facilities are excellent 4/5G all weather pitches with flood lights. The private schools aren't any better but want significantly more money for the hire.
Our city's famous girls school has a whole load of twaddle about how they 'share' their pool with the local community... they RENT their pool out. RENT it to private swimming outfits who do private group lessons. Which is fine, obvs, but don't make it sound like you're benefitting any community when what you're actually ding is rent a pool to a private company charging mostly MC parents for swimming lessons.

That just makes me ask if the private schools play rugby rather than football. There's a massive divide in Scottish schools on this. States do football, private schools play rugby & cricket.

No, they play football they just won’t play in local or country leagues. The also play rugby, cricket etc just as the state schools do.
There are 2 rugby playing private’s who play in schools leagues which include state schools, which I know because our state school team regularly smacks their arse of both, including the one that has produced several England players.

Many English public schools, including some very old ones, play primarily football. The two near me (one of them one of the most famous boarding schools in the country) are football schools - it's quite amusing that they have to bus their teams miles to find other public schools to play against as of course they could never lower themselves to play against the local plebs.

Yes, non-grammar and very few school sixth forms (only Catholic schools I think).

Maybe those very successful state schools should share their facilities and coaches with the private schools then? Since they are fully state funded - equally by the parents of children at both schools.

Or they could what private schools do - allow them to play sports with them or watch their school plays.

Ah but all private schools get is to be treated a tiny bit more favourably than a business, as they educate their students at the parents expense, with no money at all from the state.

Surely a school which is 100% funded by the state should give more, when they receive so much more?

This is funny, I’ll give you that. If you genuinely believe it, it’s even more funny.

Private schools throw a few crumbs out to keep their charitable status. I’d rather they stopped pretending to be charities and carry on as the businesses they are.

I would far rather DD's school was a business too, with the government giving a voucher to cover her state educational entitlement.

It would be a far cleaner solution, and would save me a load of money.

Unfortunately, people created schools as charities at a time when state education ended at age 10. And when charity law was created, nobody guessed it would be weaponised by a populist government. So there isn't an easy way for that change to happen.

Out of interest, do you wish the National Trust would stop pretending to be a charity too?