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STEINER WALDORF SCHOOLS AND INSTITUTIONS #2

1001 replies

zzooey · 05/04/2008 19:37

The steiner waldorf thread ran to a halt because apparently a 1000 messages are a maximum. Let's continue here!!

OP posts:
zzooey · 05/04/2008 19:38

This was the last thread.
www.mumsnet.com/Talk/43/487528

OP posts:
northernrefugee39 · 05/04/2008 19:43

Oh Zooey you beat me to it!!

I satarted a new on too!
Wondering if when the anthroposophist thebee/sue -who had sites called waldorf for america or something, threatened to punch someone on a wikipedia thread, if it was an astral punch or a physical one?

northernrefugee39 · 05/04/2008 19:43

Got to go.
See you later

Desiderata · 05/04/2008 19:53

Oh, shit!

Powerofjoy2004 · 05/04/2008 21:25

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn

Powerofjoy2004 · 05/04/2008 21:36

Yes, there's a difference between parents posting anonymously to protect their children and a cult member pretending to be a woman so that he can promote seemingly independent Web sites that are, in fact, his own.

I didn't post in public forums for a couple of years after our Waldorf disaster. When a teacher guilty of inappropriate sexual behavior touched our child inappropriately and I reported it, the offending teacher was defended by the school and damaging rumors were spread about my child. Even in a major metropolitan area like the one where we live, the risk of malicious slander following our child was present in our minds. For example, my daughter planned to attend community college for two years before transferring to a regular college. One of the parents at the Waldorf school was the Dean of Admissions at one of our local community colleges. I waited until my child was out of that danger zone before I began posting. There are many reasons parents feel the need to protect their children post-Waldorf. This is just one example.

Thebee · 05/04/2008 22:30

Powerofjoy2004/Margaret,

Grateful to see at least one sane voice among the otherwise hysterical WC-bullies.

What you mention of inappropriate behaviour of one teacher is indefensible at any school and I'm sorry your daughter had to experience it.

For the reference you make to the inappropriate theosophical concept of an "aryan era", see here.

Thanks again.

llareggub · 05/04/2008 22:35

Did you guys ever think about setting up antiSteinernet? You do rather like chatting about it. I read, in its entirety, your last thread, and I'm none the wiser...

llareggub · 05/04/2008 22:35

Oh, but I won't be sending my son to a Steiner school. I did get that much out of it.

DianaW · 05/04/2008 23:52

Zooey, good grief, somebody attacked you on the bus? Hope you're okay.

northernrefugee39 · 06/04/2008 10:04

PeteK- at the Steiner school my kids attended for three years or so, there were numerous occasions where the children told me that two large men dragged children from the class, because they had been sent to stand outside and refused to leave their chair, one boy was pulled across the room by a very strong man, with his arm in a lock around the child's neck.
These are things repeated to us by our kids and their friends.
The other punisnments were being made to stand for hours outside the class, sometimes day after day as far as I can see.
The anthro parents were as bad, a strange balance between over indulgence and "freedom", lack of any boundaries, and punishments like being put in the larder on bread and water, and washing out mouths with soap.
Oh yes- and many parents smacked, hit even quite old kids- 12-13 yrs.
All recent- we took our kids out lasy year.

Powerofjoy2004 · 06/04/2008 11:21

There was inappropriate behavior by numerous teachers at our former Waldorf school. Another bizarre thing happened on the same camping trip during which the male teacher inappropriately touched my daughter and a couple of other girls and physically hurt another girl who was afraid to cross a stream. Because the students were on land belonging to Native Americans, it was considered sacred. Everyone had to do their business in the woods but had to carry their soiled toilet paper and feminine hygiene products back to the garbage container at the camp. (I imagine that could have been quite embarrassing for 15-year-old girls with a whole lot of boys present.)

At one point, someone found some of these items strewn around in the woods. Supposedly, at least one of the three teachers (two women and the misbehaving man) went ballistic. Along with exclamations of horror over the defiling of the land, threats of expulsion and ridiculous claims that DNA testing would be done, demands were made for the culprit or culprits to step forward. Not surprisingly, no one did.

Later, however, two girls went to the teachers and named two other girls they claimed had done it. One of the tattletales was a teacher's pet who had a reputation for being a girl who made up stories about other children doing bad things; the other was a girl who was probably upset because one of the accused was her close friend but was spending a lot of time with a new friend.

In any case, in spite of the denials by the accused girls, the teachers took the tattletales' word for it and made the accused girls clean up some of the soiled items without using universal precautions--the standard precautions of wearing protective items such as latex gloves when coming into contact with other people's bodily fluids. As anyone with an iota of common sense knows, contact with other people's bodily fluids exposes one to the risk of infection with a variety of diseases, some deadly. Everyone who supervises groups of minor children on camping trips is supposed to know universal precautions and they are a part of standard first aid training that they are supposed to have taken.

The teachers brought the feminine products, stained with menstrual blood, back to school for their investigation. They laid them out on a desk in the classroom. During recess, the girls who had been menstruating during the camping trip had to come in to look at them and say whether or not they were theirs. (Luckily for our daughter, she had not had her period during the trip.)

The mother of one of the accused girls told me about a meeting she had afterwards with the two female teachers. They were still accusing her daughter of having defiled the Native American land. The mother told me she caught one of the teachers in a lie about the color of the displayed sanitary pads and the color of the brand that her daughter used.

One of the things that struck me about this incident, aside from what I think about the psychological dysfunction of teachers who lay soiled feminine products on a desk in a classroom, was the lack of balance between the reverence shown by the teachers toward a patch of earth and twigs and leaves, and the vitriol directed at children in their care.

northernrefugee39 · 06/04/2008 11:29

GOOD GRIEF Margaret-
This is unbelieveable.
And it just couldn't have happened in any other school really.
The disproportianate balance is exactly right.
And several teachers all feeling this was the right way to behave! You might of hoped at least one would have had a sense of reality about this.
The brainwashing effect of a cult I suppose.

zzooey · 06/04/2008 12:15

"Zooey, good grief, somebody attacked you on the bus? Hope you're okay."

Nothing serious, just an aggressive thug who apparently felt he had the right to push people around. First he tried to shove me off the pavement, then he shoved some other people when they tried to get on the bus, and I cut in front of him in the entrance of the bus, and hit him back. He shoved me away. I stopped where he had sat down and told him I though he should apologize for his tuggish behaviour.

Surprisingly (or not ) he did not agree. He was a big baby, really.

OP posts:
northernrefugee39 · 06/04/2008 12:23

Wow Zooey- well done! You're very brave!
Gosh- I couldn't of have done that!
Be careful!
Did anyone else see and help ?

zzooey · 06/04/2008 12:25

Margaret

That's just entirely disgusting. First the whole ordeal with picking the stuff up without safety precautions and the humilitation and all - but bringing it back into the school and putting it on display on a table?!?! To find the culprit!? How yucky. And you would think that whoever the guilty person-s was/were, they had been punished enough already, psychologically at least.

It's sadist.

OP posts:
zzooey · 06/04/2008 12:29

"Did anyone else see and help ?"

Well, no, but the other ladies he pushed around were pretty old, so I would have expected them to step aside and think of their own safety. And since the busdriver was present, he would have called the police, if needed (I hope). A girl who stepped on the bus after me, said the busdriver had told her he knew that man from before. He was a regular trouble, that is.

OP posts:
northernrefugee39 · 06/04/2008 13:14

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn

DianaW · 06/04/2008 14:32

Margaret, that's so shocking it's hard to say anything. Those people are sadists who should never, ever work with children. The damage to teenage girls from such treatment might never be undone. When those girls are very old women, this will be a trauma they have not forgotten.

I'm very glad at least your daughter wasn't singled out, but find it hard to even think about the feelings of the other girls.

DianaW · 06/04/2008 14:37

That particular school . . . critics are often accused of wanting to shut Waldorf down completely, put them out of business etc., which in general is not true - we mainly ask that they provide full, free information about anthroposophy before parents enroll their children, re-examine outdated and damaging practices like discriminating against left-handed children, and improve the academics.

But the stories coming from this particular school are so consistently sickening that I do think the world would be a better place if this school shut its doors for good. A few long-timers there basically belong in jail IMO.

PeteK · 06/04/2008 15:32

BTW, some of his teachers Margaret is talking about are still there. I agree with Diana that criminal lines have been crossed many times at that school.

Thebee · 06/04/2008 16:02

If criminal lines have been crossed and this can be substantiated in a way required for a lawsuit, a lawsuit should be implemented.

DianaW · 06/04/2008 17:05

We were talking about the Advent spiral, here are some pictures to give you the idea if you're not familiar. They're really lovely - the point is whether they are religious ceremonies.

You won't easily find pictures with kids in them, performing the actual ceremony, because the schools usually won't allow photography during school events.

static.flickr.com/39/75798891_2f77138ce1.jpg

flickr.com/photos/16831982@ N00/313034516/

this is a really nice one:

flickr.com/photos/16831982@N00/2084025309/

this is a little simpler and will give you a sense of how this works in practice, in a school:
flickr.com/photos/70391887@N00/332063154/

or:
flickr.com/photos/melindama ry/2067965408/

here's an at-home one, much simpler, very sweet:

static.flickr.com/139/327613493_17c6fc8bc4.jpg

nowdays you can even buy toy advent spirals from waldorf-approved sources:

static.zoovy.com/img/willowtree/W282-H200-Bffffff/S/sp03200_advent_spiral.jpg
ht tp://static.zoovy.com/img/willowtree/W299-H200-Bffffff/sp03200_advent_spiral1.jpg

DianaW · 06/04/2008 17:07

Trying again on one of thos:

flickr.com/photos/16831982@N00/313034516/

DianaW · 06/04/2008 17:09

And:

flickr.com/photos/melindamary/2067965408/

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