STEINER WALDORF SCHOOLS AND INSTITUTIONS #2

[zzooey]

The steiner waldorf thread ran to a halt because apparently a 1000 messages are a maximum. Let's continue here!!

Diana- you have to bracket them to link....

ooohhh

N00/313034516/ aahhh

spooky

creepy

ry/2067965408/ occult
cult
cute?
ht tp://static.zoovy.com/img/willowtree/W299-H200-Bffffff/sp03200adventspiral1.jpg sweet?]]

[[

N00/313034516/ weirdos

spookos

Yawn

They don't all come up- but thanks for finding those Diana- it made me all shivery, reminding me.... eugh...

Oh cod? hey- you spelt that right- are you ok?
Are you going to sleep? Why don't you wake up and join in?
Or start another thread abput thease threads for us?
Go on

Oh! Duh. Thanks for fixing them Northern. The instructions are right there on the page. I always wondered how people get them to say something other than the actual address, now I know.

I don't personally find them creepy, I think they're beautiful. The spooky/creepy, to me, comes from the fact that these people feel some odd need to lie and hide when asked about the meaning, to the point of even denying that they're holding a religious ceremony. What on earth could it be if it's not a religious ceremony?

And spooky/creepy comes in from making it tense and silent and high-stress performance anxiety, at least that's how it was at our school - the kids - or even the parents - would talk or sing, or start crying, or a fight would break out, and the angry Waldorf teachers would act like heinous crimes had been committed and nobody would have any fun. Out in the parking lot afterwards there would be lots of kids melting down from the anxiety and fear, and parents saying, What was THAT all about?

The toy ones seem pretty funny to me. Our teachers would have thought those were not acceptable, it would take away the mystery or reverence if the kids could go home and play with it. Kids would right away have their Smurfs or their Barbie dolls walking the advent spiral, or Thomas the Tank Engine, or take it apart and the boys would start using the candles as guns or something - ruining it from the anthroposophical POV.

Teachers and school staff have responsibilities that are more extensive than simply not committing crimes. Of course, they should be reported to the police if they break the law, but that's really not all there is to it.

I think that, whether it was illegal or not, that teacher scarred these girls for life. That's a horrible thing to do to someone of that age in particular.

If anthroposophy had anything to offer the educational system, perhaps they could offer some perspective on the handling of inappropriate, emotionally blind teachers.

There are some 1,000 Waldorf schools and maybe 1,600 Waldorf kindergarten world wide. All are self determining and different.

While the Waldorf schools and Kindergarten world wide have many things in common, they all also vary depending on the local cultural and social situation.

No, they aren't. They are the same everywhere. That's because they operate guided by Rudolf Steiner.

The fact that they are the same everywhere makes the sharing of experiences so interesting for us critics. It doesn't matter where in the world we are - our experiences are frighteningly similar.

And I think we should also warn against taking thebee's wikipedia links for information on waldorf. It's useless.

Thebee- you know it's the opposite of what you are saying- Zooey is right, the schools are all the same,
the currriculum is the same,
the guru who is fanatically followed down to every last detail is the same,
the anthroposophy is the same.
The only variation is the degree of lunacy of the staff.

What experience do you have thebee of the schools?

You haven't answered that yet?

You have no experience as a parent.

Were you /are you a teacher?

Did you do the tranining for Steiner waldorf?
What gives you the expertise to have websites about Steiner waldorf education in particular?

Diana I love the description of your school's advent spiral.
I love the barbie's and smurfs walking it

My memeories were of it being tense and fraught.
it was always on Sundays, and my hus as an atheist, wouldn't go.
At first, I felt we had to, show willing, but even before I knew it's full conotations, and just thought it was a welcoming of the winter solstice sort of festival, it gave me a feeling of being creeped out.
The main players at the school got in a real state and frenzy about it, more than anything I'd seen.
When I decided we wouldn't participate after the second one, I was met with lokks of absolute horror and amazement- they simply couldn't believe it.

Zooey:

"The degree of lunacy corresponds to the degree of anthroposophy manifested within the teacher's soul. A positive relationship."

I also think it is a fairly direct, 1:1 relationship. Anthroposophy is what is wrong with Waldorf schools. The more committed the teacher is to anthroposophy, the more likely she/he is, in direct proportion, to behave oddly, lack teaching skills, have trouble relating to children or sometimes simply have poor intepersonal skills in general.

This is not to say an anthroposophist cannot be a good teacher, or that none of the anthroposophists teaching are good teachers. It's a question of commitment - how seriously they take their anthroposophy. If they have other training or experience and are willing to draw on it, they may be good teachers. If they are committed to anthroposophy and absorbed in anthroposophy, it is unlikely.

"All are self determining and different."
Such is the claim.
By what token then do you assert that each critic is bunched as "the WC crew"

"the name "Waldorf" ... is trademarked by... guess who? The Anthroposophical Society"

According to Why Waldorf Works, the Association of Waldorf Schools of North America is the holder of trademark rights for the use of the names "Waldorf" and "Steiner" in the U.S. (Rudolf Steiner School is the name of the Waldorf school in N.Y.) as also of a number of Waldorf schools in the U.K.

OMG - all this cult stuff makes such depressing reading. We have been considering Steiner for our children for the future (not yet as we can't afford it). Why? - well really because I find the state secondary system quite worrying. I am a teacher myself and am dismayed at the constant testing and more than that - the 'teaching to the test' that inevitably accompanies it.

We are also in a grammar school area - the grammar schools cream off the children with better ability/support/behaviour etc. and the rest go to large rough comprehensives with shockingly low levels of attainment. We don't want this for our children and really thought that Steiner could be an option for us. This was after a very pleasant visit to the local Steiner school where I was impressed by the confidence and articulate nature of the children.

All this truly horrible stuff about racism, discrimination towards the disabled and pseudo religious overtones is seriously putting us off.

Is it just a few isolated problems with one or two members of staff in a couple of the establishments (just like the bad eggs you get in the state system) or can it be true that the whole movement is disguising its true nature in a sinister way?

For some info on the smear and myths about Waldorf education cultivated and promoted by most of the posters here in this thread, see here. This page describes the small fringe anti-Waldorf hate type of group where they get what they write beyond describing purely personal experiences. They all support the group and pursue a diatribe against Waldorf education here at MN since some time.

For another descriptions of the Top Ten+ myths about Waldorf education cultivated since long by the group, see here.

Is anthroposophy a "cult"? See the Wikipedia article on anthroposophy. After an arbitration a year ago, that banned PeteK (who posts in this thread) indefinitely from any more editing of any Waldorf related article at the site, editors of the articles are only allowed to use reliable sources on possible controversial issues.

The supporters of the fringe group don't like that.

And there you are again, Bee, with your web sites.

Those web sites don't answer the thoughts missingthehills expressed.

It can't be a problem of one individual teacher or school, because, as Pete said a few posts ago, it's about anthroposophy. You don't get waldorf without anthroposophy. And anthroposophy happens to be a religious belief systems that has incorporated a lot of stuff that isn't nice.

And I will maintain this, Anthroposophy is what is wrong with waldorf schools.

missing the hills... don't you think these long, long single argument ranty threads dull the point they're trying to make?

I'm training as an SW Kindergarten teacher and I've not been brainwashed. I don't get a sense that there's a cult hidden behind the schooling system. Mind you, I'm in England - and we're rather less inclined to becoming hysterical about religious or semi religious theorising than the Americans.

If you want to experience what a Steiner school is like - go to one and see for yourself - talk to teachers/parents/pupils

I have lovely sane friends who's 'normal' teenage boys both attend a Steiner school... they're in no way scarred by their experiences and the mild learning difficulties of the eldest are balanced by the level of artistry he reaches in his work and by his well developed social skills.

If you're really interested in Steiner Education, it's worth looking futher than this (and other MN Steiner Waldorf threads) to get a balanced perspective.