STEINER WALDORF SCHOOLS AND INSTITUTIONS #2

[zzooey]

The steiner waldorf thread ran to a halt because apparently a 1000 messages are a maximum. Let's continue here!!

Oh, and I meant to add that Steiner schools get very, very good Ofsted reports and the Hereford school has gained Academy status and will be state funded in the near future (when the new buildings are complete)

"Is it just a few isolated problems with one or two members of staff in a couple of the establishments (just like the bad eggs you get in the state system) or can it be true that the whole movement is disguising its true nature in a sinister way?"

No - it is a world-wide problem that has plagued Waldorf since its inception.

"If you want to experience what a Steiner school is like - go to one and see for yourself - talk to teachers/parents/pupils "

Yeah, that's what ALL the critics of Waldorf did too. Problem is - you don't get anything resembling the truth when you go to a Steiner school and talk to the Steiner people. And really, if you go to a Steiner school and talk to teachers/parents/pupils who are satisfied with the school - how is that giving any better of a picture of Waldorf than talking with critics of Waldorf who are former teachers/parents/pupils? To get a balanced picture, one needs to talk to BOTH.

but you waldorf critics sound so bonkers!!!

I don't think I could ever take any of you seriously... you really come across as raving loonies

goodnight

The following is dishonest. The writer apparently doesn't know how to write honestly.

"This page describes . . ." instead of "On my web site I describe . . ."

"For another descriptions . . . see here." Instead of "Another description I WROTE can be found here."

"Is anthroposophy a "cult"? See the Wikipedia article on anthroposophy." instead of "See the wikipedia article that my friends and I wrote, and battled to control round the clock for several months."

"Is anthroposophy a "cult"? See the Wikipedia article on anthroposophy."

Yeah, wait a minute, that one ought to read, "See the wikipedia article where I threatened to punch one critic who disagreed with me in writing that article."

Wabbit wrote:

"missing the hills... don't you think these long, long single argument ranty threads dull the point they're trying to make?"

No.
(I'm not wabbit, but too bad.)

"I'm training as an SW Kindergarten teacher"

Oh, and you don't suppose that influences your views a bit?

"If you want to experience what a Steiner school is like - go to one and see for yourself - talk to teachers/parents/pupils "

That's good advice, except that you have to demand to see an ordinary class in session on an ordinary morning, a class of YOUR choosing not something prearranged, and not let yourself be fobbed off by invitations to festivals or other specially staged events.

"but you waldorf critics sound so bonkers!!!

I don't think I could ever take any of you seriously... you really come across as raving loonies"

We know we don't, so we aren't fazed by this sort of lame attempt to silence us.

Hi Wabbit, From your perspective of an in-training WKG teacher, may I ask you to comment on www.easeonline.org/Education.htm
Anything there you reckon prospective parents needn't know?
Davy

missing- don't rely on the teachers or administrators at Steiner school to give you any clear picture. Anthroposophy is the guiding principal for the schools, and they don't mention it. They are actually taught in their training not to mention it- there was a thread a while back where two Steiner teachers said that they were told to emphasise the natural creative stuff and not talk about the anthroposophy.

Wabbit- Steiner schools are bonkers- their philosophy is bonkers. It's just covered in rainbow silks and wooden gnomes.

Here is a Steiner trained teacher on the subject-

"Steiner schools exist to guide the souls of children towards a time when these supernatural beings will be made manifest and incarnate in the 20th century.
With right training, children can go on to develop supernatural powers such as clairvoyancy or being able to talk to the spirit world.

Children learn eurythymy, which is like dance, it is intended to teach the proper stances to manifest spiritual states of being, calling upon influences from our past lives and preparing the basis for our future lives.

There is a real belief is angels, archangels and other beings such as spirits, goblins etc... and these are often referred to as fact in schools.

There is a real disdain for science, facts and 'materialistic' (critical) thinking. Steiner believed that asking for proof and reason is a sad symptom of the materialistic world.

Teachers are trained to direct kids' attention away from the ?apparent world? to the many concealed ?levels of truth? in order to empower the human soul."

I think most people who have come on these threads would agree which is bonkers...
don't you?

wabbit- you'll discover this if you ever go on in your training to class teacher . This particular Steiner trained teacher was at Emerson College I believe.

Yes- the wikepedia article is biased, thebee became so insensed about other points of Steiner's belief he probably wanted hidden he threatened to punch someone!

"thebee became so insensed about other points of Steiner's belief he probably wanted hidden he threatened to punch someone!"

No. The repeated personal attacks and personal harassment, rudeness and insults by PeteK made me feel I wanted to vomit when I saw new comments by him on my personal page at Wikipedia. When I told him that, he answered "Deal with it!".

That's the reason I at one point told him that I for a short second had considered punching him somewhere, if we met in person at some time. He then told me that he thought I probably would have to change my underwear if I saw him in person.

He was blocked a number of times for personal attacks and edit warring and warned a number of times by different admins for different reasons, until he one year ago was finally banned indefinitely from editing any Waldorf-related article at Wikipedia for his behaviour.

An introduction to the WC-group, whose site Zooey links to, is found here. (I did not write that page.)

For some comments on the specific page that Zooey links to, see here. (I wrote parts of that page.)

For a summarizing description of the group, that Zooey represents here at MN as member of its board, see here. (I wrote most of that page.) What I have written is based on ten years of experience of the group.

"Myth 5" comments on the two "quotes" at the bottom of the page that Zooey links to.

The myth constitutes the main tool of the group in its anti-Waldorf demagoguery since long. Critizising an education for not being secular humanist enough probably does not enrage people enough, and especially people of Jewish origin and/or faith targeted by the myth, to the extent wanted by the group, to bait them into supporting the group in its anti-Waldorf diatribes.

For more on that specific myth, see here.

For a description of the related "Anthroposophical world conspiracy" myth ..., also cultivated for a time by the group, as part of the paranoia and aversion it works at cultivating towards Waldorf education, see here.

Well, I suppose we can just conclude that people will find the real waldorfcritics web site. There's a discussion forum on yahoo, too.

And thebee will continue to post his "information."

There's a great introduction to PLANS on the web site's main page. Debra Snell, president of Plans, writes:

"[...]Together, we have performed exhaustive research on Waldorf schools and Anthroposophy, the esoteric, occult religion that both guides and inspires Waldorf teachers. PLANS affirms the right of all religious groups to practice and to teach their beliefs. But we expect those groups including Anthroposophy to tell the truth about their missionary efforts.

My personal experience with Waldorf was very confusing. Instead of the progressive and liberal alternative school I was led to expect by the school's promotional materials and staff, I discovered a rigid, authoritarian environment that seemed to be rooted in a medieval dogma that I did not understand. When, in an effort to make sense of things, I asked questions about this, I found Waldorf teachers to be strangely defensive.

I was stunned to arrive at the conclusion that the education of children at least as I use the term "education" did not seem to be the school's most important focus and objective. [...]

My sincere hope is that the information contained in this Web site will help other families avoid a Waldorf disaster. I strongly believe parents have the right to make fully informed decisions about their children's education. Until Waldorf promoters start being honest, PLANS will be here."

Wow- it even gets a danger flashing symbol here
New Zealand Cults

On the "cult" "criteria":

Much of what Dan Dugan writes at the old list you quote, and have quoted before here at MN, is rubbish. I haven't had time to set up a commenting page on that yet. Will see when I find the time.

As for the New Zeeland page you link to, it seems to be a Christian site. As one can note, it describes Atheism as a "False Religion", and writes on this:

"Yes, atheism can be considered a religion, since the believe that there is no God is a religious view that actually takes greater faith than the belief that God does exist. Atheism is also listed in the Glossary.

Read Randy Bailey's story of abandoning atheism to accept Jesus Christ as his saviour. He writes: 'The greatest truth that I have learned since I have "come home" again, is that all of the arguments and debates in defense of an atheistic worldview exist for one sole purpose: justification of sin.'"

It also describes Applied Kinesiology as a "Dangerous cult" and cautions people against using acupuncture, describing it as a "New Age practice". It also rates "Abortion" as a "Danger" on its list of "NZ Cults & Religous Groups".

Maybe not a general perspective on things.

Zooey, what you quote above is commented on in detail here. Maybe you missed that.

xxxxx/Northernrefugee39,

What I personally have written at some of the sites I link to are my thoughts, who's else?

What you write above also partly is pure rubbish. I'll see when I find the time to set up some comments on that too.

For a general comment on some of the points you list, see here.

the bee- why are you putting the name "xxxxx" in front of my nickname?

Have you been stalking me around the net?

Did you say earlier, you weren't trying to find out where I live?

Are you resorting to personal tactics because you're losing the battle here?

As you threatened said you felt like punching Pete?

And you talk about personal attacks!

You bare one big sad joke thebee.

Buzz off little bee

I was not a 60 yr old man pretenting to be a Mum to get on this site.

I am a Mum, protecting her identity for the sake of her young kids.
You have no other reason to put xxxxx in front of my nickname that to bring personal power games into a discussion.
You are sick.
And the fact you said you are not trying to find out where i live , is also creepy.

I'll ask you again, are you stalking me around the net?

A 60 yr old man with no kids.