STEINER WALDORF SCHOOLS AND INSTITUTIONS #2

[zzooey]

The steiner waldorf thread ran to a halt because apparently a 1000 messages are a maximum. Let's continue here!!

And more interesting people to discuss with ...

thebee- your explanation doesn't satisfy me.
it is platitudes and nonsensical phrases like

"scientific attitude to the world,focusing on building an understanding of what is true, based on personal experience, thinking and judgment." What?

"The goal of Waldorf or Rudolf Steiner education is to enable students as fully as possible to choose and, in freedom, to realize their individual path through life as adults." EERRR? What?

FREEDOM! oh yes? and what freeedom is involved in being spouted forth to by one person for seven years, without the freedom to look at text books, computers, tv, any other informationsource, other than someone who sees themselves as having a sacred task* to indoctrinate...

Yep- you wrote this bee- it's obvious.
No one else would dare out their name to it.

Why are you using the name xxxxx?

"... I'm not up for endless discussions neither with xxxxx, nor with you. I have other things to do"

Worn out with it are you?

HURRAH!

Bye!

Northern, you will now forever be listed on his people-who-make-him-sick-list

xxxxx:

"Worn out with it are you?"

Most people here at MN are probably quite tired of the crave for attention like insatiable children by the WC-gang, and your endless prattle to kick the thread to the top of the subject list to get it, and don't follow it any more.

Will I stop writing here? If I feel like writing something at some time, nah. But just as a friendly teaser, of course;-)

Oh Zooey yeuk eugh yuk

He did talk about vomit earlier didn't he?

Strangely, I don't find your attiude remotely friendly.

And if anyone is childish You are the perfect example...

You say you feel like punching people.

You stalk people around the net.

You say you feel like vomitting or something

After repeated polite requests, you continue to post what you believe are real names in stead of nicknames, but give no reason for this...

You write to people's employers/universities to try to discredit them...

You have Steiner quotes introducing your website which talks about evil

You talk about hate groups

You seem incapable of any debate or discussion , and post relentless links to your facile web sites, in what can only be judged as some kind of inability to rational thought

You rarely answer a question directly

When you are losing, you disppear like a sulky child...

You seem hell bent on supressing free speecfrom anyone who disagres with your belief system, in a way that can only be described as fanatical

Friendly?

Childlike?

You decide....

Pete PLEASE NO He's so BORING

Hey bee, I feel a bit sorry for you.
you're a bit out of the loop at the moment, but you have no idea....

"Northern, you will now forever be listed on his people-who-make-him-sick-list"

Or his liars list he has lists of people who tell "repeated untruths."

TheBee:
"...quite tired of the crave for attention like insatiable children by the WC-gang, and your endless prattle..."

And yet you keep returning again and again to the scene of crime!!

"In an ideal world, anthroposophists would like children not to even see or be aware of the existence of print or written words before age 5."

That was a typo, it was supposed to say age 7.

As one of the most fervent WCs and anti-Waldorf crusaders since a number of years, DianaW gives a consciously strange caricature picture of what Waldorf education is about, to make it sound as strange as possible.

For an actual overview of Waldorf education, see here.

For the Pine Hill Waldorf School Parent Handbook, see here.

For a number of short introductions to aspects of Waldorf education, see here

A very good introduction to Waldorf education is Waldorf Education: A Family Guide

Another is Understanding Waldorf Education: Teaching from the Inside Out.

For a number of online resources on Waldorf education, see here

For another very good resource on Waldorf education, see the Bob and Nancy's site.

The largest mailing list on Waldorf education with a large archive of discussions since 1994 is The Waldorf education list

"They prohibit reading and writing actively during the early years of school."

Rubbish.

The pupils start by learning writing in first grade before going on to learn to read more consciously in second grade.

Let's examine the explanation the bee has linked to from his own web site.

"Waldorf education is deeply bound up with the oral tradition, typically beginning with the teacher telling the children fairy tales throughout kindergarten and first grade. The oral approach is used all through Waldorf education: mastery of oral communication is seen as being integral to all learning."

This is a bunch of hogwash. The oral tradition is very nice but has little to do with learning to read. There is no reason not to tell fairy tales and teach the children to read. The emphasis on the fairy tales is to distract the parent from the fact that reading is not taught.

"Reading instruction, as such, is deferred. Instead, writing is taught first. During the first grade year the children explore how our alphabet came about, discovering, as the ancients did, how each letter's form evolved out of a pictograph."

This is more bullshit. Steiner schools do not teach "how each letter's form evolved out of a pictograph." This is supposed to appeal to parents because it sounds quaint and anthropological or something. "The ancients" did not sit around drawing kings with swords that turned into the letter K. These people are living in a fairy tale as well as teaching them. This has nothing to do with competent reading instruction.

"Writing thus evolves out of the children's art, and their ability to read likewise evolves as a natural and, indeed, comparatively effortless stage of their mastery of language."

Nonsense. It's true that some children learn to read much more effortlessly than others; however using this as a failure to justify teaching them is reprehensible.

WTF are you ladies on about... What is Waldorf is it like Montessori - teaching principles and how do I avoid it?

Nyc- it's all got out of hand in it's complicatedness.

Steiner waldorf is to be avoided at all costs- the education is based on anthroposophy, a pseudo cult like religion.It is in place to help guide children's souls inreincarnation, towards a time when supernatural beings will be made manifest and incarnate.

Steiner believed it is possible to communicate with the spirit world.

Teachers are trained to direct chioldren away from the "apparent" world, toeards hidden levels of truth.

On this thread, there is someone calling himself thebee, (he also uaes the name Eva).
He is a 60 yr old anthroposophist, hell bent on gagging people who try to talk openly about this aspect of Steiner Waldorf education.

The bee you said

"Writing thus evolves out of the children's art, and their ability to read likewise evolves as a natural and, indeed, comparatively effortless stage of their mastery of language."

How come, ther are kids at the school our children attended, who still struggle to read aged 10 and 11.?

Is this evolving naturally and effortlessly?
Nice idea, but bollocks...

It's not rubbish. Not only do they neglect teaching kids to read and write, they prohibit voluntary writing, and bringing books to school from home.

At our children's school there was no library. Only now, after 10 years of parents asking for one, is it now being set up.

And they don't just prohibit books coming from home, they've been known to CONFISCATE them. Our teachers used to make a little game at faculty meeting of sort of "emptying their pockets" of everything they'd confiscated from their students during the week. They did use the word "confiscate." (Plastic toys usually.) Just as in any school teachers might confiscate things the kids had brought to school if they were considered dangerous or threatening or disruptive, the most obvious example being weapons, or electronic gadgets. In a Steiner school, the taboo items include things like books, because printed matter is threatening to the etheric forces of the younger children.

oh yes, trading cards were regularly confiscated. Even when we had to occupy kindergarten kids whilst waiting for older siblings to finish, we were not allowed to bring ANY non-approved toys from home and it was often the more extreme Steiner parents who caused the most fuss if eg a boy brought in some Top Trumps or Yu-Gi-Oh cards for after school play.

Sometimes I read these things, and wonder how we EVER allowed ourselves to become involved?

To allow these lunatics to dictate such madness.

I'm not a retiring person (!)

I question stuff, speak up, intervene, etc...

And yet, for a short while, I accepted the total rubbish peddled by this cult.

Until it began to affect the ones I love he most- then I snapped ut of it sharpish....

And am still reeling.
Still feeling bad...

Have to settle kids.. for some reason very wild tonight..whooping and giggling... OOh- not much awe and reverence there then....

"however using this as a failure to justify teaching them is reprehensible."

Hm, that was supposed to say "using this as a justification for the failure to teach them is reprehensible."

Looking back at thebee's links I can't help being very irritated by this little lie of omission also:

"10. Why is so much emphasis put on festivals and ceremonies?

Seasonal festivals serve to connect humanity with the rhythms of nature and of the cosmos. The festivals originated in ancient cultures, yet have been adapted over time. To join the seasonal moods of the year, in a festive way, benefits the inner life of the soul. Celebrating is an art. There is joy in the anticipation, the preparation, the celebration itself, and the memories."

That's a nice whitewash. Sure festivals connect humanity with the rhythms of nature. But the truer answer is that the festivals are anthroposophical and are celebrated in Steiner schools because Steiner schools are anthroposophical institutions, founded to spread anthroposophy. Anthroposophical legends are enacted at these festivals, such as the slaying of the dragon by St. Michael every September. St. Michael is a principal figure in anthroposophy; he's thought to be the Spirit of the Age, since 1879. This is all very real and literal to anthroposphists; they just want the parent body to think it's all vague. It's very nice to say we're doing this to bring joy to the children's souls because who's supposed to object to joy in the soul? But if you try to substitute something else for one of these festivals, you suddenly find it is very important for some reason to bring in St. Michael, it's not just about joy in the soul in a general way.

These schools are sectarian. Anthroposophy is a specific religion with specific beliefs and practices, and parents should be told what specific religion their children are being instructed in, and what is the meaning of these ceremonies, just as we would if we enrolled our children in a Catholic school or a Jewish school or an Islamic school.