How essential is a language GCSE?

[AuroraHunter]

Dd is picking her gcse options. She's academically able, will pass whatever subjects she picks.

The school are very keen for her to pick a language gcse, but it means dd won't be able to do textiles which is one of her favourite classes.

Ive had a google, and apparently a foreign language isn't necessary, however the government does judge schools on the amount of children doing the EBac.

Neither spanish nor textiles is something she would want to continue to A level - her heart lies with the sciences and she's keen to study some kind of engineering at uni.

Our school has just dropped the language GCSE as a requirement. Generally high achieving school, so hope there's thought behind this.

We dropped the MFLs. They have a place and are important. But I don’t think they need to be compulsory, past y9.

Not important.

Hopefully not very given how my year 11 ds laughed when I asked him how his German writing GCSE went today. His school makes them do a mfl but loads put in no effort as they have no real interest. If she is lucky enough to have the option to do something she would enjoy instead please let her.

MFL is my subject and I love it. I also think it's a shame that more DC don't want to embrace learning MFL.

BUT I am very much not in favour of forcing DC to take a language. I would waaaay rather teach a student who was keen than one who was not - regardless of ability level too.

Lots of DC in DS2's year who were all made to take MFL did badly in it compared to their other subjects. Badly taught? Just not good at it? Protest? no idea but it's not a great result.

No Op your dd does not need MFL GCSE for any uni course (apart from language ones obviously!)

Op your dd does not need MFL GCSE for anyuni course (apart from language ones obviously!)

And only then, as a stepping stone to a relevant A level.

And for the avoidance of all doubt, before the almost inevitable but - but - but - UCL..., from that particular horse's mouth:

Please note – you do not need a Modern Foreign Language at GCSE and are not required to take further language study whilst at UCL.

www.ucl.ac.uk/prospective-students/undergraduate/how-apply/entry-requirements#:~:text=GCSE%20and%20equivalent%20qualifications,Mathematics%20at%20GCSE%20or%20equivalent.

If DC is moving in a direction of a STEM focused further education then I don’t think it is useful to do a language for GCSE. Think about what may be complimentary to engineering, like computing or even music tech if that is on offer.

I think it is very useful to be introduced to languages throughout education including primary but the level of learning is so basic.
Language learning “pays off” most when it is a language that is in demand but not commonly spoken. I don’t feel French is super helpful unless you are in the diplomatic service but by the same token some unis have dropped their Russian studies since the war with Ukraine which seems bizarre. Japanese, Mandarin continue to be attractive language options.

Think about what may be complimentary to engineering

Actually German (blows horn for fave language) is very much complimentary for engineering and highly prized by firms.

Still don’t think that’s a reason to do it if you don’t want to tho. And ofc op’s dd may not have German as an option.

Hopefully not important, as DS’s school didn’t offer a MFL GCSE at all for his year group.

It's not critical for engineering but neither are English literature/history/textiles/whatever?

If we're talking about a rounded education then (as a linguist!) I do think that a smattering of another language is a great idea. Different languages see and express their worlds differently. There are also fewer kids studying them so it's a great way to differentiate yourself.

My ds did German A level and is now happily studying Engineering. It's entirely complementary - the uni is supporting it and he's attending a German course. It may support his future career and enable him to work overseas.

If your DD prefers textiles then definitely do that - but IMO it's a national tragedy that fewer kids are studying languages.

As a former MFL teacher I think it’s a crying shame that generally speaking MFLs are not prioritised at GCSE level. I think foreign language speaking ability in the UK is woeful! Not that GCSE standard is very high.

that all being said
A. When given the choice kids should prioritise what they like doing more
b. It won’t actually affect her future at all, assuming she doesn’t want to do Languages at a-level, UNi or work abroad in the future

I am genuinely shocked at the attitude to MFL in the UK today. If my French colleagues read this it would confirm all their worst beliefs about us!
having been in corporate life almost 20 years take it from me - MFL opens a lot of doors, in terms of your career. Google translate will not get you through a tricky meeting.

You can't study at universities in Republic of Ireland without a second language.

If she's into sciences a language gcse will be beneficial because the act of learning a second language has a measurable impact on brain development in ways that have knock-on beneficial effects on things like mathematical ability. It doesn't matter what language. The action of learning a new vocabulary and grammar structure is intrinsically helpful even if the language is never subsequently used.

Textiles is a good thing to learn but she doesn't need to be doing it for gcse to learn it. There are loads of crafting clubs and a local college may well offer textiles courses for adult learners. Not doing it for gcse will not be harmful.

Google translate will not get you through a tricky meeting.

Neither will GCSE unless you are discussing drug dealing or floppy discs.

Mine all have/are doing MFL because it is compulsory. Only one actually enjoys language study at school, although they all learn languages on Duolingo. Unfortunately as languages are generally not popular the teachers have an uphill struggle to get good behaviour which makes the classes even less enjoyable.

If given a choice then go with what they love.

I make all my DCs do 2 MFL at GCSE and they are also mathematicians/scientists. I also signed them up to exchanges abroad. They are now quite fluent. It has been hard work. They have 3 nationalities, there is no way I did not want them to have some languages as well. They will be very internationally mobile as a result. I also paid for them to do Latin at grammar school (the boys grammar offered it for 3 years, the girls did not).
The real fluency came from watching Netflix and Disney Plus in the foreign languages and doing duo lingo and they still text their exchanges and are in contact and they have a deal to text in the foreign language each.

I also ensured they did musical instruments to a high level and sports regularly.

Just spotted that I said complimentary when I meant complementary ofc. Thanks @Charlotte120221 and fwiw I agree wrt the importance of MFL in general. But I still don’t think forcing students is the way to go.

Agree @Unexpecteddrivinginstructor that GCSE German will not get you through a meeting. Not aware of floppy discs as a topic at GCSE tho!

I think one of the difficulties with MFL is that they can't decide what to teach. If everyone say learnt French or maybe Welsh twice a week from reception then they could all have some fluency, introducing Spanish or German perhaps from yr7. As it is there is no consistency at primary school so they arrive in yr7 with varying degrees of understanding and might have encountered various different languages for a term here or there on the way.

@clary the text books were so old, more than one school, more than one language. The teachers had to explain what a floppy disc was.

I can imagine! Not on the GCSE spec tho thankfully 😅

Yes to be fair the floppy discs were yr7. Although drug counsellors were in a German GCSE translation.

GCSE is of course the building block to greater proficiency. Drop languages by all means, but you are limiting your career as well as your capacity to become familiar with other cultures.

The other thing about languages is you do need to do the hard boring yards first before it gets interesting. It tends to be kids of higher ability that can do that. But then look at our European friends - they all seem to manage to achieve a high degree of proficiency in other languages. Are they just cleverer than us?!

No - they are just all watching TV in English and reading English websites from an early age and listening to English songs etc. It is all immersion. If you do more of that yourself at home, then the kids can learn.

I have a lot of French friends and they were all very adamant that even the plastic toddler toy had to sing in French! That kind of stuff makes a difference long term.

Also many European countries spend more lesson time on MFL and speak to the class in MFL only. So many teachers here do not do that! It is such a basic thing.