How essential is a language GCSE?

[AuroraHunter]

Dd is picking her gcse options. She's academically able, will pass whatever subjects she picks.

The school are very keen for her to pick a language gcse, but it means dd won't be able to do textiles which is one of her favourite classes.

Ive had a google, and apparently a foreign language isn't necessary, however the government does judge schools on the amount of children doing the EBac.

Neither spanish nor textiles is something she would want to continue to A level - her heart lies with the sciences and she's keen to study some kind of engineering at uni.

But the reality is that 'they' do learn our language. Very often, if you try to speak the local language in many European countries, you won't be 'allowed' to do so because your interlocutor will be so eager to practice their English. I've had this happen to me many times, even when my command of the local language was clearly better than their English.

Obviously if you're going to live of spend significant time in a country then you will need to learn the language. But for most British people, there simply isn't much of a need to speak anything other English. That's just the reality when you speak the world's lingua franca.

But I also don’t think their language capability is down to the factors you describe either. They are doing it because they prioritise it. We could do the same if we wanted.

I tthinka lot of it very much is down to sheer incidental exposure to English, rather than prioritising it. When I took my students on the German exchange, they were astonished at how colloquial their German partners' English was - due to the fact that lots of the stuff they follow on social media and watch on YouTube is in English (just because that's what's popular, not because they are seeking out English content to practise their English).
They were also amazed at how much English there was everywhere - in all media. British teenagers will not be watching German content.

Yeh my DS is currently in Germany playing his sport - the commentary on the matches is hilariously non-German. Tbh you could probably understand it pretty well if you had a decent knowledge of the sport (which is American football) as all the position names and plays are in English (well American).

So I agree it's hard to avoid English if you are a teen in Europe.

Yes, and many European children are highly motivated to learn English because they see it as the world language, which they can use anywhere and with anyone.

People here are talking about Europeans learning 'languages' but mostly they learn just one language, and that's English. Once they've done that, they're generally no more motivated to learn additional languages than British kids are. Even in multilingual countries like Switzerland, many people aren't bothered to become fluent in the other national languages and will prefer just to speak English instead.

She’ll be fine without a language. School are only pushing because it’s important to them and she’s able.

So you must be too young to remember the UK being part of the EU and people going to live and work in other countries or with firms that did business with other countries. Or you just think let’s not bother to learn other languages, let’s just assume ‘foreign’ people learn our language.

And it can’t be in doubt that it’s a practical skill.

Er no, I'm I'm 63.
Although learning a language should be a practical skill, it doesn't seem to have been really taught as such in our schools.

Huge numbers of people who aren't native anglophones - certainly those working in some sectors and global organisations demonstrably do learn English, it's not an unfounded assumption. They may learn other languages as well but have you ever been in a meeting with colleagues from Japan, Korea, India, Germany, France, Russia, Bulgaria, China ... etc which was conducted in anything other than English?

This was the norm (I didn't go but OH did) apparently there were only a couple that would accept you without a language and they were former technical colleges. I think with the advent of polys there was more choice.

This was the norm (I didn't go but OH did) apparently there were only a couple that would accept you without a language and they were former technical colleges. I think with the advent of polys there was more choice.

How old is he? When I was applying in the late 70s I don't remember many which had this requirement. One of my colleagues, superbright maths/science but dyslexic, hadn't been able to go to oxbridge but went to a perfectly good now-RG uni. It really was a ludicrously discriminatory requirement.

Sure, but a lot of effort will have gone in as well as the you tube videos. And to the extent that’s a help, there’s tones of foreign languages material online. I now watch France info for my morning news - blessed relief after the bbc

France definitely, very hard to get by in academic circles if you have no French and want to go to a conf in France.

I think all those saying « oh but everyone speaks English » are overlooking the advantages that come from being able to speak the local language. Yes you can get by without but you do better with. And in my sphere (law) a lot of interesting jobs stipulate English plus at least one other European language.

This is incorrect. Most Northern European countries teach the children English AND another language as standard up to GCSE and then offer additional languages at A level and beyond. And repeating my previous point, there is plenty of motivation to learn more than one. I speak five and i am not a linguist. Two were taught from pre teen, two were A level equivalent electives and one was living in the country. My parents also spoke five languages plus took Latin which has also been dropped in UK state schools.

Preference in German/French speaking countries is often culturally loaded, i.e. they don’t like eachother and in the case of Switzerland, Swiss German is so far removed from standard German. It’s like English and Patois.

Agreed! More British people need to speak a second language to at least conversational level. We are just back from Spain and so many British people just shouted at locals in English. Very odd

France definitely, very hard to get by in academic circles if you have no French and want to go to a conf in France.

Doubt that applies in the sciences.

More British people need to speak a second language to at least conversational level.

It would be nice, it would definitely be enriching for some,but for most it's not a 'need'. Even moreso with the advent of tolerably good computer translation.

It's arguable that more people 'need' to do a tech subject, and/or arts (art, music, drama’

To answer your q, OP, definitely not necessary, ebacc is a measure for schools not students.

However, agree with Clary DS did German Gcse, and started it at A level as he enjoyed it, and thought it might be useful as an engineer. A 5th A level was definitely too ambitious, and he dropped it pretty quickly, but was disappointed to do so. He picked it back up at uni, doing a German for engineers course, and chose it as an optional module which counted towards his degree. He reads novels and watches TV in German now.

Total digression from the question, but if she wants to pick up a language later on it may well be possible to start from scratch at university.

I used to go to European conferences - STEM subject - and everyone spoke English to each other, even in France.

I think British people should learn languages for other reasons though.

Agree with most PPs that it’s not essential, but engineering is a career in which I’d say a European language is more important than most. My brother and a good friend both work for top engineering firms and have both taken evening classes in French/German and very regularly travel to Europe. Not really sure exactly what they do but one did Mech Eng and the other Aeronautical Engineering at uni and work with aeroplane engines.

Honestly since Brexit it is less relevant as they won’t be able to work inEU anyway unless earning over 58k approx (and more in coming years). Nevertheless universities like MFL as they are a valuable indicator of intellect and of a desire to go places. It sounds ridiculous but it’s true - I worked in graduate recruitment in UK and EU.
I would say though in STEM there is still a hierarchy and French is lower than German.

Must add that the EU salary requirements are less for STEM but some countries ignore it and refuse visas for anything less that the standard amount

I speak three foreign languages to a fairly good standard. I have lived overseas and worked using another language. I love languages, but not knowing one will not hold anyone back professionally.

The main reason to learn languages is because it is part of human knowledge and gives people cultural capital and trains one’s mind and it can also be interesting and beautiful. This is why I encourage people to study languages.

There is no specific need for British children to learn a foreign language because English is the lingua franca. Contrast this with French or Spanish or German children who do have a specific need to learn English. This is the reason they learn English so well: they have to!

How about the tourists from other European countries? Did they all speak fluent Spanish?

Why does it need to be fluent? Surely it is not difficult to learn how to say please and thank you in a different language. That is the least people can do. I appreciate I am biased as an MFL teacher.

You're right, it doesn't need to be fluent. But in my experience, tourists from non English speaking countries often assume that everyone else speaks English and don't bother to learn even the basics of the local language, any more than British tourists do.

I did French and German-both almost pointless- unless I want to tell a French person I have a green hat or ask a German for directions to the mental
hospital