How essential is a language GCSE?

[AuroraHunter]

Dd is picking her gcse options. She's academically able, will pass whatever subjects she picks.

The school are very keen for her to pick a language gcse, but it means dd won't be able to do textiles which is one of her favourite classes.

Ive had a google, and apparently a foreign language isn't necessary, however the government does judge schools on the amount of children doing the EBac.

Neither spanish nor textiles is something she would want to continue to A level - her heart lies with the sciences and she's keen to study some kind of engineering at uni.

But neither will GCSE.
I like languages, see the value in them and did two to a higher level than GCSE.
The truth is GCSE is a low bar, and not really sufficient to be useful. Our whole attitude/culture would need to change to make a dent in our poor language skills. We start too late, and devote too little time. An hour a week in primary and 2 hours a week in years 7-9, maybe not in the same language, gets you nowhere, really. A few hundred words of vocab which could easily be surpassed by 2 months of serious study.

Yeh drugs and alcohol issues come up under the health topic, one of the better topics tbh (ppl on MN always seem to complain about the GCSE teaching them just how to say they will go to the cinema tomorrow 😂)

You can't study at universities in Republic of Ireland without a second language

Surely in most cases that would be Irish and English?

I agree btw that the GCSE will not make you fluent (!) tho it is better than it was!

But as others say, it’s a stepping stone.

Yy the reasons why Germans and French and ppl in other countries do so well at English include a) it’s the obvious one to learn (in uk we split it up perforce) and b) soooooo much pop culture, films, music, TV, internet is in English.

I have an MFL degree and I let my DD drop languages at Year 10 so she could do three arts options. However, I am going to help her to do an iGCSE in it privately, as I personally think it's important. That said, I mainly use my languages degree for ordering croissants on holiday. So maybe it isn't.

Both my dc did an MFL GCSE, I did two and my dh did three!

none continued at A level

tbh, they are virtually useless. No employer who wants language skills will consider a GCSE to be anything other than completely crap and useless. GCSE is a really low level in terms of language skills.

that said, I was actually pretty good at German and French and have used them really basically abroad.

My dh forgot the lot and hasn’t used anything ever again.

an eng/sci degree won’t look at a lang GCSE IME

This all the way. In recent years we have talked our way into thinking that language skills are not useful. In most work places we have colleagues who are able to relocate to the UK because they have learnt English. Our insular culture limits our horizons in ways other nations would consider unthinkable.

Not important at all.

My dd did 9 months of French in her school life.

She has a masters degree and a very good job now.

Er, you really don’t think that 🤣

In most work places we have colleagues who are able to relocate to the UK because they have learnt English

Their English will be way beyond GCSE standard. On it's own a GCSE modern language is pretty useless.

I had to do one foreign language to get into university, back in the olden days. That was regardless of subject.

It’s extremely useful and without it as a stepping stone you’d be left trying to learn from a very low point if you wanted to relocate anywhere.

To counter this, my degree is in a MFL, I lived abroad for a year, have had a corporate career in the UK for over ten years and having a second language has been nothing more than a modest party trick.

I love languages though and try to use my second language when liaising with colleagues in relevant countries - but this generally has to be in English eventually for others to understand, and often their English is better than my MFL skills.

So while I personally advocate for learning languages, it doesn’t really make any difference unless you plan to live abroad / have a career where it is essential.

as a stepping stone.

Quite, on it's own it's useless.

Answering the op’s question more directly. I’d say their DC may as well drop it if they really don’t want to do it.

It is a crying shame we have nationally a negative opinion of studying languages these days but I’d never be in favour of forcing someone to do a subject if they felt they didn’t need it or it wasn’t strictly necessary for what they want to do.

Change on this has been rapid. My DC is 18, in his secondary the people who didn’t study a language were mostly only those who asked to an exception to the pattern of choices. They were nearly all dyslexic.

Oh my gosh such a good reason not to avail oneself of any useful knowledge.

The full quote is:
It’s extremely useful and without it as a stepping stone you’d be left trying to learn from a very low point if you wanted to relocate anywhere.

It’s an absolute tragedy that we’ve normalised not taking a language at GCSE. My 2 GCSE languages opened the door to me living abroad for a few years which was a fantastic experience. I saw new places, learned about different cultures and made lifelong friends.

I didn’t initially speak the languages of the countries I moved to, but the vocab and grammar from them gave me a huge advantage in learning the languages I needed when I moved there.

My child went to kindergarten in one of the countries. The 6 year olds practiced their English on him. They were so proud to be able to speak English. I could weep at the comparison with the UK.

I think UCL used to require a MFL GCSE (regardless of your degree subject) but they have dropped that. Not sure if any other universities do.
I love languages and it makes me sad that MFL is in such a dire state in this country and kids don't want to do it. Having said that, if your DD is sure she doesn't want to do languages at A-level, I don’t think she'll be academically disadvantaged by choosing not to do MFL at GCSE. It's a shame though. Languages are genuinely mind and horizon expanding!

my Y9 hasnt chosen a language, instead opting for triple science, history & Art.

Ds didn't take a language for GCSE, there were only four choices of subject when he chose his options & he chose drama, history, geography & computer science. Some universities run courses for languages that can be studied as an extra with their degree, so not doing on for GCSE doesn't mean that they can't do so later on.

I’m a bit mystified by this point. GCSE is a necessary stepping stone to A level and greater proficiency beyond that. It’s possible a student might pick up languages at a later stage having dropped them all at GCSE but it’s pretty unlikely. And that does limit your prospects of an international career - as well as your cultural horizons.

I have to say as well that the English person who sits in a meeting composed of French colleagues and forces them all to conduct the meeting in English really, really pisses them off…

My dd had to do an MFL gcse , as an aspiring engineer she chose German.

She's been to a couple of trade shows over there, afaik it's not been of any use to her.

It may be worth doing a language if it comes easily to you (imo some of it's about confidence speaking) but the reality is that English is the lingua Franca and in STEM fields and global companies it'll be the common language. I work for a global company that's now European, based in Paris - communications are all in English, some with French following. They don't expect Americans, Indians, Chinese, Japanese etc etc staff to all be able to communicate in French!

DH in a STEM R&D role visited companies in Germany, france and Japan... people appreciated him making an attempt at pleasantries and ordering drinks but certainly didn't expect fluency in any one of their languages.

Don't carp about 'American English' being the norm though, it still makes life easier for Brits.

For your DD, OP, the design and practical elements of Textiles may be more relevant. Mine was able to do more options because it was pre-reform, so was able to do electronic products and comp sci (and drama) as well as the EBacc set. They were much more useful to her than German and English lit.

I think the point is the OP wants to know what implications (other than lack of proficiency in the said language) there is if her dd drops a MFL. As the dd has no intention of using the language for A level, university etc and there is another subject she really does want to do is there any issue with dropping the MFL which was never planned to be a stepping stone for the dd to anywhere.

For instance UCL used to require a MFL GCSE subject or compulsory language study in first year so back when it was compulsory people might have advised OP that if the dd wanted to go to UCL she should stay with the language. Now in the UK there are no such requirements although some Welsh universities will incentivise Welsh language study.

If the dd has plans to go and live in France then obviously she should study French as long as she can. Unfortunately with Brexit there are more limitations on working abroad now anyway and the dd might have no interest in leaving her own home town. Yes she might regret not learning a MFL or she might not care. It sounds like she could probably teach herself it in the future if she wants/needs it.

I think UCL used to require a MFL GCSE (regardless of your degree subject) but they have dropped that. Not sure if any other universities do.

Precisely none now.