Struggling to pay for 6th form

[Charliesunnysky10]

DP & I both attended local state schools and had a tough time getting an education, so when our daughter wanted to go to an independent school for secondary (yrs 7-11), we made arrangements to set aside enough to fund the 5 years. My Dad wasn't too happy and said that the house was not to be mortgaged to pay fees (my mum sadly died 4 years earlier and left us enough to pay off the mortgage). However, there was regular overtime available at DP's work so we managed okay. We hadn't factored in the cost of living increase and I took a 2nd job for the evenings and weekends to ensure we could cover this last year (11).

However, daughter had said she would attend a state sixth form, but has in the last year become desperate to stay at the independent school (she wants to be a dentist and needs AAA which is regularly achieved at her current school's 6th form, but nowhere else locally). On the plus side, she got good mock results (8 x grade 9's and 3 x grade 8's) and when she had the post mock chat about sixth form with school they said they were very keen to keep her for A levels.

However, I'm honestly dead, working a 60 hour week, DP's overtime is sporadic and we can't meet the fees for another 2 years (I sold my car, and walk to both jobs). I've asked my dad again if we could remortgage but he is completely against this and says Mum mum didn't leave me the money for this. He said she has a better chance of getting into Uni going to a state school anyway. I just doubt she'd get the AAA - he says what will be will be.

I spoke with school and they said there is a bursary available and daughter's grades would stand her in good stead. However, reading the application form I'm asked why I can't liquidate assets and I think this is a weak reason. I wouldn't want to go against Mum's wishes but I do feel this is more Dad's take on the situation.

I really don't know what to do, and DP says it's not his parents or money so can't comment, but if it makes me feel any better, he says he's also torn between just applying for bursary and risk them thinking we are unreasonable, and remortgaging, but working like mad for another 2 years to pay it back ASAP.

What would you do?

I know others have said it but don't rule out state 6th forms just because you think she won't achieve good grades in them. 6th form is so different from years 7-11. My eldest is thriving at her state 6th form having got very similar GCSEs (at her state school) to your DD's predicted grades. Any good state 6th form will support your DD to get the grades she's capable of.

Tbh she would have a better chance of an offer if she went to a state school. I think universities take this into account now.

Can she go to the state school and you pay for tutors instead? I was state educated and got high grades in sciences and maths at a level. I had a tutor for maths that my parents paid for. I don’t think going to a state school means lower grades and in sixth form it’s independent study that distinguishes between the high and low achieving students.

Contextual offers only apply for the really low-ranking badly performing schools.

In many cases, just attending a state school regardless of Ofsted rating is sufficient, although it is often also linked with home postcodes, FSM, caring responsibilities etc.

eg Durham, if your current school is a UK state school and you have a POLAR4 quartile 1 or 2 address then you are eligible for a contextual offer.

Universities will often look at where GCSEs were taken though.

As pp have observed, I don't think you understand how league tables and selective schools work.

If she's capable of AAA she will achieve it in a state school. As pp also observe, competitive places look at more than that.

Of course her private school are singing in her ear like the sirens. They want your money and her grades to maintain their league position - so they can use her to bring in future revenue from parents using the same faulty logic as you. I would be very unhappy about my child being emotionally manipulated for financial gain in that way.

Plus it would be natural for her to feel nervous or sad about changing schools now it's real not hypothetical. That doesn't make her argument any less faulty. Those are normal emotions that are perfectly survivable, not a reason to get your parents into debt or dishonour dead family members.

How are you going to support her at university if you financially and physically exhaust yourselves before then?

I personally couldn't dishonour my mum's wishes like that. That's how it would feel to me and it would eat away at me. You might feel different and that's fine, but you are the only person who can determine that.

You're mortgage-free. It's madness to be in this situation when you could easily fund a couple of years of sixth form by remortgaging. Loving your dad is neither here nor there. You're a grown up and don't have to defer to him in your family's financial planning. He doesn't even have to know. Most couples your age would be paying a mortgage anyway so it's not some outrageous debt you're taking on. Your mother's wishes couldn't have entailed you running yourselves into the ground so as not to offend her when she's not here anyway. Stop being emotional about it and be practical and independent.

Contextual offers only apply for the really low-ranking badly performing schools.

That's not true. My dd got a contextual offer based on the post code of her sixth form college. It's got fantastic results. It's not low ranking or poorly performing.

It sounds like it has nothing to do with your dad, OP. It's your house, so you can do what you like. Don't even bother telling your dad - he doesn't need to know about your finances. In your shoes, I think I'd be putting my child's education first and if that means remortgaging, then so be it.

How are you going to finance university for a lot of universities the rents so high £10k/year it’s realistic for them to need £14k a year to live overall it’s just got really bad in the last year or two and based on your income it could be the Gov may only loan her £5k the rest needs to come from yours and your child’s income ( we’re paying £10k a year for daughter rent)

have you got savings in place for the above or do you need her to go to state 6th to give you 2 years to stockpile cash

Assuming it's your house, it's none of your Dad's business - I'm sure your Mum would be thrilled that she had enabled private school for your daughter. Just re-mortgage and don't tell him.

You're working yourself to death, walking to your two jobs. Your husband is doing any overtime you can get. I just don't think this is sustainable. I certainly don't think you should remortgage your house when it was your mother's dying wish that you not and she left money for you to pay it off. My son bailed out of a private school at a young age and attended the local state school. He is doing medicine. It is entirely possible to get excellent grades even at state schools. I certainly did and so did lots of my friends. (My school was once described as gritty and working class.) Of course, the school want to keep her - they're worried about losing pupils and the 20% surcharge. She will have other expenses at university too. I'm not sure that the bursary form means for you to sell your house - you have to have somewhere to live. I didn't send my youngest to a a private school - reasons of convenience of reaching the said school and some other personal reasons. I figured that the cost of sending him would cover an awful lot of extra tutoring. He was tutored right throughout high school - some professional and we could tutor maths and science subjects ourselves. We eventually got another math tutor into give us a break. I personally know far too much about Classical Greek theatre performances than I ever dreamed possible. We worked with the teachers and worked through the curriculum and did our own mock exams using old exam papers. We used all the cram books we could lay our hands on for revision and online resources.

Assuming your DD has a strong friendship group and is happy there, I’d try and stick it out for another 2 years.

How will your dad know you’ve remortgaged? Only if you tell him presumably, so just keep quiet!

I'd be furious with DH if he overshared our financial business with his parents. You're an adult.

It’s striking that you and your DH don’t seem to think you have a right to make significant financial decisions by yourselves. Your dad wants you not to remortgage/borrow against the house, your daughter doesn’t want to look at state schools - neither of these people get to make a decision about your finances.

You and your DH make a decision about what’s best for you and your family, including what you can afford to pay back if you borrow, what you can afford re uni, and then you inform the people who are presuming to tell you how you spend your money then choices you as a couple of adults have made.

in the case of your dad, you don’t bother informing him at all, why on earth should he be informed about your finances? Your mum might have opinions about how you spend your money, but as soon as you inherited that money it stopped being hers to control, so you and your dh decide how you spend your money.

what your daughter wants and what you can afford needs to match. I can’t afford private school so it doesn’t matter if my dcs want to go to one. If you decide you can’t afford it as a family, you tell her and she chooses from the options available to her. Only you and dh get to decide if it’s an option.

OP I'd echo what other posters have said about both contextual offers and her current school's motives. Sixth forms have to be a lot more realistic in their grade requirements because students have a lot more choice. You don't say if her current school is all through (ie 3-18) but where I am those schools are often very keen to have academic high achievers at sixth form.

Also cf what others have said about uni costs.

I would not remortgage in your situation, you sound like you're worn very thin. And while the legal position is that you can do what to want, going against your DF's explicit wishes is no small thing. If you own your house outright I'd be very surprised if any school would give you a meaningful bursary.

Good luck with whatever you decide.

@SabrinaThwaite "In many cases, just attending a state school regardless of Ofsted rating is sufficient"

This is not how contextual offers work.

Yes it is some cases. As I said it will be in conjunction with other requirements such as POLAR4 or FSM or caring responsibilities or refugee status etc.

It doesn’t have to be a low performing school, just needs to be a UK state school.

It’s almost like I have DC who qualify for contextual offers so have bothered my arse to check.

Sorry but I don’t know why you’d sacrifice your well-being and family life for something you could get for free. Loads of kids get AAA in state school. Of course you shouldn’t get a bursary, they are for students from families which genuine needs

@SabrinaThwaite "Yes it is some cases. As I said it will be in conjunction with other requirements such as POLAR4 or FSM or caring responsibilities or refugee status etc."

So not just "attending a state school" then.

As I said in PPs, for some unis it can be any state school, it doesn’t have to be a low performing state school.

It was in response to Contextual offers only apply for the really low-ranking badly performing schools which is untrue.

For what it's worth I would do some serious research into the state 6th form nearby as in my experience the standard varies enormously. Both my children were state educated and DS1 had a fantastic experience, DS2 went to a different school and had an awful experience.

DS2 took A Level physics and apart from a few weeks at the beginning of year 12 didn't have a physics teacher for the whole 2 years. The school apparently were unable to recruit anyone to the post and couldn't afford/were not able to source a supply so his lessons basically consisted of being given textbooks to read and worksheets to fill in under the supervision of a TA or for one memorable term the poor chemistry teacher in the next classroom was basically tasked with teaching both his chemistry class and my son's physics class at the same time running backwards and forwards between the two classrooms - I kid you not.

It was a shambles of the highest order and no amount of meetings with the head brought any sensible resolution. We ended up shelling out a fortune in private tutoring to fill the gap as DS was adamant he didn't want to change schools.

DS1 in the excellent school got really useful consistent and targeted support with his UCAS application while DS2 in the poor school got nothing other than one open meeting about the process.

I therefore think that if your local state 6th form is good this is something I would consider. If it's not so good I would move heaven and earth to keep your daughter in the independent school for the next 2 years.

I completely disagree with the posters who say if she is capable of 3 As, she will get them anywhere. Don't underestimate the impact of removing a happy, settled and well-adjusted child from the school they have attended for five years and sending them somewhere they don't want to go - especially if your child is particularly sensitive to change.

In my son's case, the teaching was better at the state school we moved him to but the sudden change of environment had a much bigger impact than we expected on his mental health. He ended up on antidepressants and he achieved overall 6 grades lower than expected across his A-Levels - (predicted A star, A star, A and got A, C, C).

This sentiment would apply to any child being forcibly removed from any school, state or private, and sent elsewhere, but for my son the jibes and judgement (e.g. 'private school c*t' 'f*k off back to your posh school') definitely didn't help him feel welcomed. Amusingly, a lot of these comments came from children whose parents were richer than us!

Which universities offer contextual offers to students from all state schools, please, without any other criteria being applied?

I don’t get this at all. I got AAA from a state college. She just needs to study.

How are you going to support her through uni then? I’m sure she’ll turn around and say she can’t have a job to support herself.

Please do try reading - it’s in response to the “only poor performing state schools” comment, when for some unis it’s any state school (in conjunction with another factor such as POLAR4 or FSM etc)

You can check out which ones for yourself.

No need to check - I think we're in agreement that simply attending a state school alone isn't ever enough for a contextual offer.