Struggling to pay for 6th form

[Charliesunnysky10]

DP & I both attended local state schools and had a tough time getting an education, so when our daughter wanted to go to an independent school for secondary (yrs 7-11), we made arrangements to set aside enough to fund the 5 years. My Dad wasn't too happy and said that the house was not to be mortgaged to pay fees (my mum sadly died 4 years earlier and left us enough to pay off the mortgage). However, there was regular overtime available at DP's work so we managed okay. We hadn't factored in the cost of living increase and I took a 2nd job for the evenings and weekends to ensure we could cover this last year (11).

However, daughter had said she would attend a state sixth form, but has in the last year become desperate to stay at the independent school (she wants to be a dentist and needs AAA which is regularly achieved at her current school's 6th form, but nowhere else locally). On the plus side, she got good mock results (8 x grade 9's and 3 x grade 8's) and when she had the post mock chat about sixth form with school they said they were very keen to keep her for A levels.

However, I'm honestly dead, working a 60 hour week, DP's overtime is sporadic and we can't meet the fees for another 2 years (I sold my car, and walk to both jobs). I've asked my dad again if we could remortgage but he is completely against this and says Mum mum didn't leave me the money for this. He said she has a better chance of getting into Uni going to a state school anyway. I just doubt she'd get the AAA - he says what will be will be.

I spoke with school and they said there is a bursary available and daughter's grades would stand her in good stead. However, reading the application form I'm asked why I can't liquidate assets and I think this is a weak reason. I wouldn't want to go against Mum's wishes but I do feel this is more Dad's take on the situation.

I really don't know what to do, and DP says it's not his parents or money so can't comment, but if it makes me feel any better, he says he's also torn between just applying for bursary and risk them thinking we are unreasonable, and remortgaging, but working like mad for another 2 years to pay it back ASAP.

What would you do?

OP, again with the greatest of respect for what you decide is best for you and your family.

You mentioned that your local state school options were not attractive at y6/7 and completely accept that may still be the case.

However if you haven't already done so, do look closer because post 16 can be very different. Specifically, look not just at Ofsted reports/GCSE but at their post-16 outcomes, not just via their statistics but do visit and also visit.

I wass just going to say the same. Secondary and 6th Form are totally different.

And most State 6th Form have much more choice and variety of subjects, and small class sizes. And teachers are so delighted to teach small groups dedicated to what they are learning and keen to get great Uni places, that they give great attention to those classes.

Not any more @fleurneige. Even 10 years ago when I entered teaching, the average class size in 6th form needed to be 18 to break even, and some state schools can't run music, drama, classics, some languages at A-level.

Oh and many kids have been forced into A-level due to lack of alternative choices and behaviour and engagement isn't always great.

That must vary between schools though?

My DC’s largest class was maths at A level, which was 15 pupils. Sixth form was about 70 pupils, in a school of 1100. Quite a few of the Yr11 leavers go onto apprenticeships, vocational college courses and other school and college sixth forms for A levels.

That’s why it’s worth investigating all options.

It does vary yes. But funding and recruitment difficulties have significantly worsened in the last few years.

My DC did A levels last summer, so that’s pretty recent.

OK. Well I've never taught a class of less than 12 at A-level (last 13 years), biggest was 27. London/Kent.

But our schools are all full and no state school would run a standalone 6th form of 70 outside the private sector. They'd have to form a consortium or be within an academy trust to manage a decent range of subjects.

Anyway - probably irrelevant to the OP as I don't think she's said where she is.

State school (academy). Large mixed catchment. South of England. Didn’t share teachers with other schools AFAIK.

Anyway - probably irrelevant to the OP as I don't think she's said where she is.

Probably, but all state schools are different and they’re not all overcrowded / have poorly behaved students / poor results.

Teachers are significantly cheaper outside the London weighting/fringe areas. Housing also marginally more affordable. Lower staff turnover.

I'm not clear from the OP's posts if she and her daughter actually viewed potential 6th forms in the autumn or if she's going off what she thought of the schools when her daughter was year 6.

@Phineyj "I'm not clear from the OP's posts if she and her daughter actually viewed potential 6th forms in the autumn or if she's going off what she thought of the schools when her daughter was year 6."

I thought she was going on what she thought when she herself was at school...

Just catching up. We went to 2 colleges Oct 22 and another 3 in October just gone. All state, mixed. 4 Salford, 1 Wigan, 1 Trafford. I think what concerned me most was that the 5 years at her current independent girls school will make it very tricky to acclimatise. She might get lucky and find friends striaght away, but that's precious time diverted from cracking straight on in familiar surroundings and a ready made supportive friendship group. She's emailed the 2 that we applied for to ask how they could support her through a medical degree application. 1 came back with a link to the whole prospectus, which didnt give any details about guidance on the application process, so I'll follow that up myself while we wait on the other. They all run maths and sciences and the 2 we are looking at, 1 says up to 20 in a class and the other said it varies too much to give an estimate but I asked at thd ooen day and they said maximum 20. There are no more than 10 in each A level class for where she is now.

It seems far better fof her to stay put given the situation and hopefully we'll be able to sort that.

Whereabouts are you? Are Xaverian or Loreto options for you?

I think you need to keep her where she is.

Ultimately it was your decision to send her private for secondary school and whilst I'm sure the state schools are absolutely fine, it feels like a big risk to uproot a happy, settled and motivated teen. I would say such a thing is priceless, but of course you do know what the price is, hopefully you will get the bursary to reduce that.

Our local secondary school has similar numbers as pupils are strongly encouraged to leave if they don't have amazing results at gcse. The school has recently been rated as requires improvement but the 6th form was assessed as very good. Even if dd3 agrees to leave her private school I wouldn't send her there as I think she would be bullied due to her previous history with the pupils.
Dd2 did her A levels privately and in one of her classes there were 2 students including her but both at polar opposites ability wise. She hated it and she ended it 'only' getting an A instead of her predicted A* due to the teacher messing up the project dates Thankfully Cambridge had not included that subject in her offer!
Sometimes more is better.

Probably varies, but I am saying this with very current experience.

We can now declare the anecdata a truce as the OP has provided actual data!

Sounds like large 6th form colleges were viewed, and single sex to coed, school to college, twice the class size and maybe not much experience with med/dental pathways does sound problematic.

Plus if the child is a high achiever, good chance of a discount/scholarship.

Now you've mentioned your area, are you sure you've fully researched the state options?

It might be too far to commute, but a quick Google revealed this one:

aggs.bright-futures.co.uk/sixth-form/destinations-of-leavers/destination-of-leavers-2022/ would you not consider somewhere like this? 7 to dentistry and 1 to a related course and loads to medicine.

They do seem to have phased out lacrosse in the 70s sadly 😂

I'd tell the private school that you are unable to liquidate assets and that if she's not accepted for the bursary you'll sadly have to give notice.

If she's a straight a student and competes for the school then they won't want to loose her hopefully.

@Phineyj Altrincham School for Girls I believe is a super selective grammar.

Yes, but the sixth form admissions requirements are very reasonable, if you have a look. Hardly superselective at that stage.

Not all girls are attracted by girls only 6th forms. Some leave.

@Phineyj Thank you so much. We investigated this one thoroughly and she applied a few months ago, but its a nightmare to get to (1hr 20 and 3 buses). Nobody this side of Manchester goes, and my gut feel was that she'd struggle to be accepted unless providence shone like the sun because although their sixth form intake includes a few outsiders, the vast majority have spent 5 years working out a pecking order and the Y13 who showed us round came from Ashton On Mersey School and said my daughter was brave to switch from an already good school; this was a big step up for our tour guide and a chance to get the better A Level results to take her into medicine. That was all that mattered - but social and sport is huge to my daughter. Her local U16 teams stood down practice over mocks because there was not enough girls to train with and shes been sullen and down. That wont be good for her over sixth form, having no sport in school. I know if she stays put she'll get 3 training sessions a week in school, in addition to the external clubs.

I think given all you said I would try for bursary, work like mad or remortgage, in that order.

Kids tend to want to do what their friends at school do. If many are changing at Sixth Form they are up for it, hardly anyone likes being an outlier and starting from scratch.

If a teenage girl is doing well academically, socially and emotionally, sporty, balanced, ambitious I would not disturb that as it it such a gift these days. Plus the uni applications come round so fast and are intense for dentistry/medicine and you don’t want a huge commute then either. Year 11 is intense and so is Year 13 they almost need a good settled Year 12 to carry on their peak performance.