Struggling to pay for 6th form

[Charliesunnysky10]

DP & I both attended local state schools and had a tough time getting an education, so when our daughter wanted to go to an independent school for secondary (yrs 7-11), we made arrangements to set aside enough to fund the 5 years. My Dad wasn't too happy and said that the house was not to be mortgaged to pay fees (my mum sadly died 4 years earlier and left us enough to pay off the mortgage). However, there was regular overtime available at DP's work so we managed okay. We hadn't factored in the cost of living increase and I took a 2nd job for the evenings and weekends to ensure we could cover this last year (11).

However, daughter had said she would attend a state sixth form, but has in the last year become desperate to stay at the independent school (she wants to be a dentist and needs AAA which is regularly achieved at her current school's 6th form, but nowhere else locally). On the plus side, she got good mock results (8 x grade 9's and 3 x grade 8's) and when she had the post mock chat about sixth form with school they said they were very keen to keep her for A levels.

However, I'm honestly dead, working a 60 hour week, DP's overtime is sporadic and we can't meet the fees for another 2 years (I sold my car, and walk to both jobs). I've asked my dad again if we could remortgage but he is completely against this and says Mum mum didn't leave me the money for this. He said she has a better chance of getting into Uni going to a state school anyway. I just doubt she'd get the AAA - he says what will be will be.

I spoke with school and they said there is a bursary available and daughter's grades would stand her in good stead. However, reading the application form I'm asked why I can't liquidate assets and I think this is a weak reason. I wouldn't want to go against Mum's wishes but I do feel this is more Dad's take on the situation.

I really don't know what to do, and DP says it's not his parents or money so can't comment, but if it makes me feel any better, he says he's also torn between just applying for bursary and risk them thinking we are unreasonable, and remortgaging, but working like mad for another 2 years to pay it back ASAP.

What would you do?

@BotanicalGreen universities are only interested in extracurriculars that are directly relevant to the course being applied for. Otherwise the spectacularly unfair scenario you outline would apply.

Sorry @BotanicalGreen -my reply was meant for @Justkeeepswimming . I think.

@CurlewKate yes, I was saying that (thankfully) the spectacularly unfair scenario painted just didn't apply at all to Medicine applications nowadays.

If I was in your position OP I’d do a state sixth form and pay for private tuition with a tutor on top. Likely to be a lot cheaper and still better. I actually work at a Russell group university in marketing and our dentistry course is often unsubscribed so the grades are lowered in clearing.

My privately educated teen works like a dog in the local stables starting at 6:30am every Sunday! Very hard manual work. Not many teens (or adults) would do this. Nothing to do with being privately or state educated.

@BotanicalGreen I do wish there was some way to destroy this extracurricular myth so many still believe in....

@Ducky48 Why do you think a private tutor would be needed?

Just tell them you don't own the house.

By coincidence my husband and I both studied medicine at a Russell group university, not that long ago.

He took a gap year before university to earn money, and worked throughout.

I didn’t take a gap year, but worked every summer holiday, on Saturdays, and intermittently on weekdays.

We both took our university fees on loan and have recently paid it off (ourselves).

Not to say everyone has to do it, but just wanted to say that self funding through uni is doable. My opinion is that parents should not put themselves into financial difficulty after high school.

How many more “working” years do you and your DH have in you? If you believe in her intentions to stick at it, I’d take a mortgage out to pay back over 10 years/whatever length payback was needed so that I didn’t have to work a 60 hr week anymore. And tell my dad that she got a full bursary.

Have you looked ahead to what happens financially when she goes to uni?

I'm sure loads of parents tell themselves their kids go to independent schools because xxx [insert justified reason]. Can she really not go to a state school sixth form?
If you think it's crucial for her to stay there then you either carry on, or remortgage the house - or sell it, move somewhere cheaper and use what's leftover to pay. It's not really your dad's call, but he sounds fairly sensible in advising you to take out a mortgage when interest rates are currently high.

Send her to state, if she works hard she’ll get the grades

I think some must. Some people seem to think parents of state school pupils:

1. must be poor
2. if they are not poor then they are awful for not choosing private because private must be better than state
3. that you get what you pay for in education
4. teachers are better in private school

Having been taught at private and posh public schools myself, taught in state schools and private and had 2 DC go through the state system, none of the above are true.

I think if you are needing a longer structured day for your child (so you can advance in a career) then private school has its advantages in that it’s usually a longer day. It means that sports and activity organising etc need less input from the parent/child.

In OP situation I would possibly err on staying in private if her child is so happy there. But I would seriously look at the financial implications of uni. Often the student rent isn’t even fully covered by the maintenance loan, let alone food etc. The best thing might be for you to work hard then drop your hours while your daughter has a gap year and works (and also gets work experience at a dentist).

I’m a head of sixth form in a state school.

for students to be given lower offers, or consideration for going to a state school, universities usually specify that ALL their secondary education was in state schools so your daughter would not usually fall into that bracket.

At a state school, able students with high GCSE grades, like your daughter, who work hard get A and A* grades. Private schools usually mainly have higher A level results because they started with students with higher GCSE grades. Obviously there are exceptions to this, but that’s the general pattern.

Having said all that, I would do what I could to minimise disruption to your daughter. I have seen 16 year olds change schools and cope with the change, but it is usually a change that they had an input in. Sixth form is a hard time, your daughter may flourish in a new setting with new peers, or she may really struggle. None of us reading this will know the reality of your daughter’s own situation.

I wish you the best of luck, feel free to reply to me for more specific advice - I also lead our medicine and dentistry group.

@Bananabreadandstrawberries the erosion of the student maintenance loan is making things very difficult for a lot of DC. If you studied recently, did you qualify for maximum or minimum maintenance loan? That makes quite a difference. Also depends which RG University you went to. London and Bristol extremely expensive for accommodation, some Scottish and Northern more accessible. As a medic you will know that applicants tend to apply where they have the best chance of success and often don't get more than one offer so choice of location is a bit of a luxury given the degree of competition for places. Ability to work part-time for a protracted period depends on structure and geographical spread of placements - my DC hasn't been able to work since the start of third year. Also, acceptance of a gap year is not a given and med schools don't always defer places once they make offers. Use it or lose it unless extenuating circumstances in some cases. Clearly lots of variables. Obviously commendable that you and your partner worked your way through but from my current experience with DC I think that is becoming more and more difficult for young people to do this. I think, sad though it is from an exclusion perspective, parents have to have the financial capacity to help these days.

I know people with plenty of money who have moved their kids to state schools as seen to be easier to get into medicine / dentistry / vet etc. With tutoring…

Another urban myth. They are very misguided people unless they are specifically sending them to poorly performing schools in the hope that they get contextual offers purely on the back of that? Do they move house to poorer areas too so they can benefit from a deprived POLAR classification? Many state schools will have no contextual considerations at all and they will have to meet the same UCAT thresholds, GCSE grades and actual offer grades as candidates from many independent schools. If they move them after GCSEs the medical school will be referencing the school they achieved those at too.

OP don’t do this if people are telling you this. It’s not true.

I wouldn’t let you dad dictate this to you. If this is an opportunity to ensure your daughter is prepared for her future, absolutely do it. It might also provide you with a bit of breathing space so you can pull back on working so much.

Dd3 is in year 11 at an independent school and predicted 10 9s. I would prefer her to go to a state 6th form - she doesn't really know what career she wants but definitely nothing medical. The school does brainwash them into staying! We are on a full bursary and are also mortgage free. There has never been any expectation from the school for us to remortgage.
I do appreciate it can be hard to reintegrate into a school's 6th form but I don't see a problem with a 6th form college. I have no support from anyone else even though I'm the only one working!

Apply for the bursary before you do anything.

"Why aren't you liquidating assets" they don't mean your own house! They mean your yacht, ponies, and chalet in Verbier.

I used to be an independent school teacher. Apply for the bursary with bells on.

I am really, really really against private education and think it should be abolished.

But - you are where you are and of course want to do the best for your daughter.

I agree with others that she could do just as well at a college or a different sixth form but had I made the decision to send my daughter to a private school and she wanted to stay for the last two years I would think it only fair to support her in doing so. I am guessing it wasn't her decision to go private, it was yours, so not fair she is penalised for wanting to stay with her peers.

Could you explain that to your dad? I don't think you should lie to him and you cant ask your daughter to lie. I get the thing of not getting back into debt but could you demonstrate to him that you have the bursary and will be able to pay off a loan in x time? I can't imagine your dad wants you to be working yourself to the bone or for your daughter to be unhappy.

The school want your daughter to stay there. Apply for the bursary. If she gets it, perfect, if not then you can reassess.

@MeridaBrave "I know people with plenty of money who have moved their kids to state schools as seen to be easier to get into medicine / dentistry / vet etc. With tutoring…"

PLEASE let's destroy this myth. It's really really not true.

If she's as academically capable as you think she is, it will make no difference where she studies for her a-levels.
If the only reason she gets As is because her current school and the prep they do, then she really needs to go to state school. University is a whole different ballgame! She's not going to have that level of support, it's independent learning for students. They won't hand hold her or coach her. So if she's not as academic as she thinks she is, then she will struggle.

I wouldn't go against my parents wishes. You can't afford for her to stay, so unless the school is going to waiver the fee, she needs to stick to the original plan.
I agree with the other posts about uni costs as well. There's an expectation that parents will make up the difference in student loan amounts. Unless you're going to inform your daughter she needs to work throughout university? So it would be better for you to try and save for 2 years before she starts university.