Private Vs State school

[Ilikepinacoladass]

I know this is a controversial subject. But genuinely trying to decide if private is worth it.

I see loads of comments saying things like I didn't send mine to private because I went to a comp and was at the same uni as loads of privately educated people and got same results etc.

But surely the GCSE / A-level results speak for themselves? Lots from the comps won't have even made it to uni whereas maybe they would have if they'd gone to a private school?

A-level results from 2023
56.5% got A/A* - local private school
39% got A/A* - local grammar school
20% got A/A* - local state school

I don't want to waste money, but I do want the best for my child (as we all do!) and trying to decide if having more local friends / a free education / short walk to school etc (state school) would be worth the potential loss in opportunities a private school would offer.

Private school parent here. We decided at last minute to go private at 11 as DC was offered a poor (in our view) school. He’s done well and got 2xA* and 2xA at A level…. But friend who went to the school I didn’t like has just gone to Oxford with stellar A levels. Lots of similar stories round here. If you want the broader experience, more drama and sport etc, you’ll get it. But don’t go private because you think they’ll do a lot better. Remember they are usually very selective - so you’re comparing apples and pears.

Honestly I think it’s more complicated than that - you need to think about admissions policies. If the private is very academically selective then they may be more selective than the local grammar. The comp isn’t selective at all and is also impacted by the existence of the grammar.

We're hoping to send DS private next year (aged 9). For us it's more about the experience, the sports, the extra curricular stuff. He's struggling at his state school mainly due to being in a very disruptive class. And the few places for choir, drama, dance club etc mysteriously seem to get snapped up by the kids of the active PTA mums, which I don't have time to be. If he happens to get better results then great but I'd just like him to be happier at school and gain confidence in himself.

The private and grammar school results are a selective sample. More likely to be affluent which is associated with higher achieved grades, as well as being academically selective earlier on.

Your stats are flawed. You're not comparing like with like.

If a selective school can't get high grades, then it's a really shit school. Private schools ditch the children who will mess up their stats.

Why is a selective school only achieving 39% at A or above? That's not very impressive.

Local grammar got over 80% A*/A and the private was 30%. It’s area dependent.

@Radiatorvalves
Sounds like friend from the comp has done really well, and no one's saying you can't do well at a comp, but surely from the stats more from the private will do well?

@Sparehair
The private I'm looking at selects at 3/4+, there's an exam to get into seniors but vast majority of juniors go up. So it's not hugely selective (although half the senior intake will be coming from 11+ selection)

Depends. With private schools you're often paying for extra curricular/specialist activities, not necessarily results.
Then again it's easier to get better results if you're in a small class with less disruption and therefore less stressed teachers.

The results don't speak for themselves unless you have all the information about the students whose results they are. A grammar school, or a selective private school is automatically going to get much better results than a comprehensive, because of the ability levels of the students they take. That doesn't necessarily mean it's not worth sending your child to a private or grammar school though. It depends on what the individual schools are like.

A line that’s often trotted out is that bright children will do well anywhere.

I don’t think this is quite true. What’s more accurate is that bright children will
pass anywhere. They may get 4s and 5s and a handful of 6/7s at an okay school but they could have been 7/8s at a great school.

There are some children who just have a god given gift and are more intelligent than their teachers but they are few and far between. I don’t like the fact money buys a good education but I don’t dislike it enough to sacrifice my children’s chances.

@Crishell
'Then again it's easier to get better results if you're in a small class with less disruption and therefore less stressed teachers.'

Well yes exactly

Don't just choose private for results. The results of private schools are from a selective sample and a bright child at a decent state school with good support and a positive attitude can get similar results.

However I have sent my DC to private because I couldn't get all the above in the state school option open to us, so it has to be an individual decision based on the specific private school and the specific state school you are actually comparing.

Not all private schools are brilliant academically, some are just coasting on the basis of being selective but don't actually add much value academically (though may still add value through sports and extracurricular)

The local private school here although highly thought of for sports and music doesn't get any better results then the local comp academically (we don't have grammar schools here). So depends on what you want out of private. Some of the teachers I know say private is good for the middle of the road kids who often get missed in the middle of the class as they will get more attention in private and gain from smaller class sizes.

Very selective private schools should be getting very high grades as they take the best of the best. You can't compare them to comps who have to take everyone.

@user628468523532453
'Why is a selective school only achieving 39% at A or above? That's not very impressive.'

I agree! The other local grammar also only got 45% A and above. So both quite far below the private.

Most independent schools are selective which is why the grades are higher. It doesn’t mean the children performed any better than they would in a state school - but then no one can ever really know! Quality of teaching is the same whether state or private, but class sizes are smaller in private so I think it’s best for those who’d get lost in the ability middle of class of 30

For me, going private is more about picking a school which has more funding to pump into sports, arts and co-curricular opportunities. Essentially the things that’s state school have to cut back on due to lack of funding

The private I am referencing isn't highly selective, half have been there since 3+

Certain private schools are all about the academic, so much so they will have regular testing and those who continue to not perform are asked to leave so as not to bring the overall scores down. One thing private schools are good for is networking though which is always handy later in life.

I mean, not always. There are a number of fairly “big name” schools near me that are known as being fairly academically agnostic. Their results are far from stellar but it’s not their USP, which is value add. They tend to draw from non- selective prep schools of which there are many.

I think the problem with comparing schools is you can never compare like with like as you’ll never know what would have happened to that child at a different school.

There can be a tendency on MN for people to say “ god, why would you pay for those results” without knowing what the intake is. These may be kids for whom 5/6s at gcse are a good outcome. Not all rich people have bright kids or are academic themselves.

Plus, as you say, people’s decisions are highly individual- often depends on what the state provision is like.

@Ilikepinacoladass Honestly? Have you considered the relative demographics? Private schools are by definition selective. Most state schools aren't. There's your answer.

You really need to look beyond the results. Private schools tend to be selective. Bog standard comprehensives are not. FWIW my DC got x4 Astar at a comp (not so stealth boast). He got a great education. What he didn't get was great facilities, 1:1 support for uni admissions, a calm learning environment and a potential 'old boy network' to give him a leg up in the future.

That's what you pay for.

I think you are very naive and don’t seem to really grasp things like why there is an attainment gap or schools manipulating figures.
I have had children in private and grammar- and honestly in terms of teaching the private wasn’t any better.
Private not worth the money.

If you can afford to, 100 % send DC to private.

It depends how many of those children would have still got the same grades at a comp, I imagine most of them as they clearly have parents who are highly invested in their education. What you have to remember is that every comp in the country are all missing 30-60 ‘set 1’ children from their stats as they’ve been sent to selective private instead.

I’ve worked in all types of school and my kids go to private though we’re hoping for secondary that at least a couple will go to grammar. I think it really depends what you’re looking for and what the private school is like (some have great facilities, some have terrible ones; some are very academic, some aren’t). If you’re just looking for results, a well-motivated child will still do well in a decent state school. An academic private school, though, will cover far more than the curriculum so can be a better fit for students who love learning. There could well be more on offer in terms of extra-curricular activities too. Where I think the real difference is, though, is in confidence and comportment, which stand the child in good stead for interviews and networking later in life.

It's all about where you live and if you live in a catchment to a good school or not (IMO anyway).
We live in a lovely area and in the catchment to one of the best state schools in the north east. The kids get brilliant grades, has loads of clubs and a great reputation. We moved here because we were previously near a crap school. If we didn't move, our DC would be going to private school.