Private Vs State school

[Ilikepinacoladass]

I know this is a controversial subject. But genuinely trying to decide if private is worth it.

I see loads of comments saying things like I didn't send mine to private because I went to a comp and was at the same uni as loads of privately educated people and got same results etc.

But surely the GCSE / A-level results speak for themselves? Lots from the comps won't have even made it to uni whereas maybe they would have if they'd gone to a private school?

A-level results from 2023
56.5% got A/A* - local private school
39% got A/A* - local grammar school
20% got A/A* - local state school

I don't want to waste money, but I do want the best for my child (as we all do!) and trying to decide if having more local friends / a free education / short walk to school etc (state school) would be worth the potential loss in opportunities a private school would offer.

Maybe it's also easier to take an objective view of the statistics, rather than being clouded by anecdotal evidence? I think great for kids to make their own choices btw, but think this can happen in any school, in fact probably more choices available in private?

It’s very area and family specific though. We had minimal “push” factor away from state sector so the upsides of private school for ours frankly weren’t worth the significant outlay - for us anyway.

Dd2 social group are all at the various local private schools anyway so Dd2 has firmly plonked herself in that set despite going to state school herself!

’is it worth it?’ Kind of depends on what you are hoping to get out of it.

DOI my DC have been in the independent system since reception and yr 1. We can very comfortably afford the fees.(due to DH salary). I have however spent a long time considering whether it’s worth it especially when DC were in an independent school that wasn’t a good fit- a poor choice on our part.

im sure the famous parents at DCs school think its worth it. Their DC aren’t teased or picked on and the parents largely get to get on with their lives……which I can’t imagine would be the case if the DC were in a school with 50 % FSM kids. Children in the UK have to be at school. I have definitely come across kids who are at school because they have to be. These children will never have to work a day in their lives…..so their education might as well be spent in nice surroundings with reasonable people.

comparing exam results in many ways isn’t helpful. Most kids at private schools come from educated families and have parents with expectations and the means to provide additional support. Plonk that cohort of children in any state school and I’m not convinced that the exam results of that cohort would be hugely different. It’s not the buildings/facilities or even (in the main part - there are many many amazing state school teachers) the teachers that get the good exam results- it’s bright kids with bright parents.

state schools are there to educate the masses. That means they are there to cater for the average. The average household income in the UK is about £34k. Most people sending their kids to private schools do so with an expectation that their child will use the education to further their life chances /salary. The reality is however that most privately educated children don’t go on to earn a salary that enables them to send their own children to independent schools. I’m one of 3. We were all independently educated and we all earn 6 figures……but our single salaries aren’t sufficient to send our own children privately. And I don’t know one single person who has been to a private school that can pay all of their own school fees…they rely on grandparents, bursaries and jobs that come with an education allowance.

we currently live in an area between 2 catchments. Catchment 1. The city - has 3 excellent non selective state schools one of which gets a-levels of 50 % A&A* (and 2 awful state schools), has decent facilities and is largely middle class with highly educated parents. Catchment 2 has 3 awful state schools. When we moved we were already in the private system and stayed in it…..but I can’t say it’s worth it. It might be worth it if DC both end up in 6 figure jobs, but if they choose careers in teaching or nursing we’d have been far better putting the money into property and giving them a deposit on their 25th birthday. It’s pretty hard to justify £250k in pre university education for a degree in nursing or teaching (or a career in social work if physio or policing).

if you are going to spend the whole of your child’s schooling holidaying in a tent and driving a 20 year old car, and assuming you aren’t living in a ghetto, I wouldn’t say it’s worth it.

if the money is spare you can undoubtedly give you child a nicer learning experience…..whether on not that money would be better as a deposit when they are 25….youll only know with hindsight.

@Flashingtreelights - really interesting post. One time when I was questioning our decision to use savings to send kids private over helping them pay deposits on flats, a wise older friend made the point that you get educated once, and it's an internal asset rather than an external one.

My DCs have been lucky enough to have an education that has been brilliant for them in so many ways - academically, socially, and in terms of all the co and extra curricular offerings their private school has given them. This might have been the same in our local comp - but unfortunately I know several families who attend that school, and not one of them is very happy with it.

So - my kids have had a good start. I do hope they won't turn around when they are 25 and say 'but a flat deposit would have been better!' - they probably will 😂- but the point is, you only get one education that carries you through your life. You have your whole adulthood to earn money and buy property by yourself - which the vast majority of us do anyway!

@Flashingtreelights it's odd that you say you don't know anyone who can send their kids to private on their salary who went to a private school. I know about 50% of my school year send their kids privately, and while I'm sure a percentage of that have help from parents and in-laws, that was ever the case; some got military funding too. My school friends from private school are architects, doctors, a cardiologist, an editor for a famous magazine, a publisher at a famous publishing house and a psychotherapist, to name a few. One even went abroad to play professional sport! I think it must depend on the school as well as the parents because I certainly don't know that many with high salaries from state or grammar in one year. I see the pattern repeated in the years above and below me as we all still follow each other on social media.

I do agree that sending children privately for primary can be a waste of money, as they are learning the basics - unless you want your child to excel at something non-curricular at a young age that the state primary can't offer. Most people I know would rather pay extra for this lesson and save their money for the first 6 years. I realise that I was able to find an outstanding state primary, which may not be the case for everyone. IMO the best part of private school is from 11+ when your child has specific interests and is keen to explore new ones that these schools can offer.

@Loungechaise i largely agree with you….if you have the money to spare, be that savings, grandparents, whatever. But I’ve met families who rent (ie don’t own any property)and send their children to private schools…..that seems bonkers to me, ditto live off beans on toast and have tent holidays in the rain in uk for 20 years. If you are making that much sacrifice I’d suggest you move and find a decent state school.
the other exception is SEND kids,(even very mild SEND) almost always will do better in private.

Yes if you have very high income or family wealth and can comfortably afford it why wouldn’t you? But if it’s financially a struggle unless the state option is dire or your child is unhappy / bullied I admit it’s hard to understand. We have friends who had to sell their house to pay the fees - the state schools here are honestly pretty good. Friend gave up with her third and sent him state and he’s thriving. She freely admits they cocked up.

Grammar schools might take the 'brightest' 10-year-olds @Ilikepinacoladass (though even that is somewhat debatable) but if you think the brightest DCs at that age are de facto the brightest DCs at 16, 18 or 21, well I have to tell you that the data doesn't support that notion.

Only around 2% of DCs consistently achieve top grades throughout their education, according to PISA statistics. The vast majority will experience peaks and troughs in educational achievements, for myriad reasons; the upshot of it is, whether you are in favour of grammar schools or not, 10 is too young to be deciding what type of education is best suited to any particular child.

You're making an assumption though that people who send their kids to private school want to drive a fancy car and go on fancy holidays. DH and I drive one simple car and do simple holidays out of choice. I can't stand certain cars and very obvious displays of wealth. When DS starts private this year (and DD when she is 12), we will need to lead a relativity 'simple' life. But we'd do that anyway. The difference is we will need to retire later and DC won't get a house deposit. But to me handing them cash to buy a house and giving them a private education are two completely different things with different outcomes.

Dds private school friends families are insanely wealthy. Very nice people but my god.

@Heatherbell1978 im not making that assumption at all. We don’t drive fancy cars or go on fancy holidays……but we do own our own house, DH won’t camp and we are driving reliable cars that are less than 10 years old. There is a middle ground between twice a year to the Maldives and a week camping in the rain. If sending my DC privately meant that for 10 years my only holiday option was a week in a tent in wales, never being sure if the car was going to start and renting my home, they wouldn’t be at a private school.

@IfAIwasfedMN i am a dr. 2 nhs full time consultant salaries can just about cover 2 sets of school fees….dependent on other outgoings. A single drs salary generally can not unless very careful budgeting and living somewhere cheap.
a friend is very senior in pharma with an architect husband- they are using inheritence. Neither her parents or his has outside help.
im not aware that any of my friends at school had grandparents pay the school fees.
40 years ago school fees were more affordable. My first boss lived in a house that now is worth over £2mil. 2 kids, private school, wife part time nurse, annual ski holiday and somewhere else exotic. That’s just not possible on a drs salary these days.

I go back to the point that if you have a huge mortgage and new and expensive car plus multiple holidays a year you would struggle to also pay for more than one child at private. I know couples in similar roles to your friends who live in a 2 up 2 down that they've mostly paid off (bought early 2000's) and have one old volvo between them. They stay with in laws in France and sometimes a Cyprus style holiday. Other couples might be paying finance on new Porches and have a mortgage on a 5 bed in Chelsea with annual holidays in Bahamas or yachting... It's what you do with the salary and what you prioritise that shows what you care about.

To be clear I didn't mean that as a personal dig at you or doctors - all in favour of proper wages for doctors. I mean that a lot of people I've met would rather have the outwardly luxurious life than use funds for private and not be able to post amazing photos on social media. I certainly know people who could have sent their children to a relatively cheap private (there is a huge variation in costs!) and saved them years of being bullied leading to several suicide attempts in their late teens, but they decided they'd rather not because they wanted to buy a second house abroad instead (yes, hindsight but we asked them why they'd not move her because we could see it was the right thing to do for her MH and I'm still baffled that they could not).

I see that a lot in my peer group. I'm in Scotland where fees are lower, so although private school remains out of reach for most, it's not quite to the extent of London. We obviously don't have the crazy house prices up here too. The 'wow you're posh/loaded for sending your kids private' come from those with a couple of £60k cars in their drive, new extension, and a 'must-do' holiday to Disney Florida each year. I absolutely agree with peoples right to choose how they spend their money but I find it a bit galling that I can't criticise their life choices to their face but private school fees are fair game.

Where we are in London for doctor couples (there are many locally), it tends to be state primary followed by state grammar or selective independent now. I would expect 2 very intelligent people to prioritise the education of their children.
My neighbour who has 3 children just has to do lots of private work now on the side and so does her DH. The other neighbour doesn’t have to do as much private work as their DC all got into the very competitive grammar.
I don’t know a single doctor who has settled for the comp model but I guess that is just my friendship group. I assume it also depends on where they live. A private school can offer an all round experience and if you work very long hours then you might want the kids extra curricular being taken care of as well as the ability to get a teacher’s direct email address.

Friends who are academics and living in Oxford or Cambridge are happy with the comps, that is because the academic standard there is high, they are amongst their own. There really is no generalising state vs private school. Most people want to send their DC somewhere where they fit in and will be happy primarily. If the local option is good enough with parents like them value wise (note this has nothing to do with money but more about educational values) they tend to take it if it is free. Very rich people send their kids to top boarding schools because if you live on a country estate and have a house in Klosters, then you are the odd one out at the local comp or even grammar. It is again about “one of us”.

Your last paragraph basically describes where we are too. High performing single sex state so the doctors we know send their children there. These schools aren’t perfect but they are pretty good. Minimal disruption majority parents value education/ results same as the less prestigious private.

Those that choose private school are either very wealthy / kids who have struggled in state/ families where it’s just what they do and they wouldn’t ever countenance anything else. That just anecdotal here.

Using inheritance is basically the same as grandparents paying, no? It's just spending it before they die.. I've heard it's relatively common for grandparents to be paying/ helping anyway?

It seems for a lot of people it's far more acceptable to spend £120 on extensions, expensive holidays, clothes, having more children (although to be fair this one is a bit more worthwhile imo) than on putting child through private primary school.

It's obviously up to each family what they choose or their kids, but as I've said before kids learn reading and writing perfectly well at a good/outstanding state. Village schools in our area are packed with very wealthy parents (some famous) because they want their child to know the kids in their village and don't want to send them to board before secondary. I do know a couple of families who did the other way around; paid for private primary and then put kids into grammar/state for secondary but it usually doesn't work as well because the child isn't used to large class sizes, lack of 1:1 and so much competition. Anecdotally one kid was a maths whizz in a cheap private primary then went to a grammar and was in the second to lowest set. His parents have found it very hard to motivate him with maths since. My DC, having been to a state primary, are super aware of how lucky they are at their school and don't take any of it for granted.

kids learn reading and writing perfectly well at a good/outstanding state

This simply isn’t true in many cases. Our local “good/outstanding” state primary (in an area with house prices far above average) has appalling outcomes at 11. Less than half leave school having reached the expected standard in reading, writing and maths. Do I think my children would have reached the expected levels had they gone there? Yes, because they have good support at home. Do I think they’ve reached higher standards than they would have done by attending a fabulous private school? Absolutely.

It's not just about reading and writing though is it... I could probably teach those at home myself!

State primary my DCs’
attended usually had 94-100 per cent reaching expected standards even with the newer style Ks2 sats. And most years 35-65 per cent at greater depth in maths, reading and writing (percentages in those areas can differ, usually maths being the highest). It is also a school where lots of kids try for London grammars so they are prepared. If you pass 11 plus, KS2 Sats are “easy”. A school like this knows the parent group too so they are extending the higher ability kids. Even if the kid is exceeding from Reception, you are still told they can work on X, Y and Z. Anecdotally, the local through private schools intentionally hold the kids back in years 5 and 6 so they don’t leave to more competitive independents and grammars. And apparently some really do not make sure every part of the national curriculum is covered. Things like grammar terms they just don’t cover in detail and they don’t make sure every part of maths is secure either.

@Araminta1003 yes, we've heard the same re privates not wanting to help kids get to grammar. The boy who was a "maths whizz" ironically also had to pay for a tutor for months so that he would know what to expect in the test and get up to speed. Imagine paying twice!
The only reason I would consider paying for private is SEN, one DC is dyslexic but has higher than average vocab and has done very well in English (especially now spellings are apparently not such a big issue in exams! Another thread...) but some kids at their primary were really struggling with screens and extra lessons just to read even in Y4/5. I think I would have seen the point of private then, as the state system isn't really cut out to help 2 or 3 in a year who need more 1:1 care.

@IfAIwasfedMN - I think all of this is just so school and school culture specific. In DCs state primary they ran intervention groups for those not meeting expectation from half way through Reception. Usually about 5-6 kids had to go in 30 minutes earlier 3-4 times a week and they also set them extra work. They had the TA with them in small groups. However, some of the parents with kids in those groups still complained. On the one extreme, some complained it was too much pressure and they didn’t want to do the extra work. On the other end, the more pushy parents with dyslexic children complained the school wasn’t doing enough to support their children and wanted all sorts of high tech screen type education, coloured glasses and all the things which do help but which state schools do not have the budget for.