Private Vs State school

[Ilikepinacoladass]

I know this is a controversial subject. But genuinely trying to decide if private is worth it.

I see loads of comments saying things like I didn't send mine to private because I went to a comp and was at the same uni as loads of privately educated people and got same results etc.

But surely the GCSE / A-level results speak for themselves? Lots from the comps won't have even made it to uni whereas maybe they would have if they'd gone to a private school?

A-level results from 2023
56.5% got A/A* - local private school
39% got A/A* - local grammar school
20% got A/A* - local state school

I don't want to waste money, but I do want the best for my child (as we all do!) and trying to decide if having more local friends / a free education / short walk to school etc (state school) would be worth the potential loss in opportunities a private school would offer.

@Araminta1003 yes, I suspect it varies greatly. Our primary was full to capacity with a waiting list and although they had an extra 15mins for dyslexia they had varied abilities that they couldn't really do too much with in that time. I do have to say they spotted DC's dyslexia super early (Y1) which I was impressed with as reading wasn't an issue. I do think I would have worried if it had been more severe and possibly looked at private, mainly due to the class sizes. I know my DC have found that the biggest bonus of private schools; not having to shout to be heard, which has improved their confidence.

The confidence is a huge issue to bear in mind. Being able to compare with grammar kids in various years, some of which have been told that if they don't keep up to a certain level they might be kicked out, I can see why they are stressed or suffering anxiety and depression. The setting of homework seems to be hugely different too with some grammar friends getting 8 pieces a night with 6 to be in the next day at age 11/12. My children are not workshy by any means but that kind of pressure was not something I wanted to put them through.

“The setting of homework seems to be hugely different too with some grammar friends getting 8 pieces a night with 6 to be in the next day at age 11/12.”

Yes DD’s grammar was like this, but the entry test assumes that the child is really intelligent and fast. Some people have tutored for years to get their DC to pass “faster” and that is a mistake. 6 pieces of work are not a problem if a DC can do them in 20 minutes max each but if they take one hour each, it becomes unmanageable. It is the same with really selective private schools- they assume a high level of intelligence and processing speed and it is miserable for a child whose brain does not work at that speed. They even expect lots of extracurriculars too and move really fast in class so they are aimed at a certain type of child.

Yes DD’s grammar was like this, but the entry test assumes that the child is really intelligent and fast.

There's quite a range of abilities even within grammar schools. Some of the students at the grammar school where I teach can really struggle with the work level and workload.

@AllProperTeaIsTheft I don't know if you teach at a super selective, or how long you have taught for, but do you personally find that tutoring has caused issues even within the grammar system itself? I know friends opting to pay for tutoring throughout (non-super selective) grammar as a way to keep kids in top sets, etc. I can't imagine it helps with mental health if kids know they aren't in the set without extra help (that they can't talk about/admit they are having) and I don't know if the schools would support it? I think a lot of parents in this area see it as "free private schooling" which puts a lot of expectation on the school and kids - is that your experience?

An all through private definitely wouldn't give any help to pass 11+, it wouldn't be in their interest to do so. But I also can't see them 'holding back' children's learning, this also wouldn't be in their interest because they are also aiming for good results at GCSE surely.

State primaries also don't give any help to pass 11+ either though, you need to get external tutor for that.

I'm pretty sure only schools that would do this would be Preps.

Yes, I see the sense in it, but I think a lot of parents in grammar areas think they are paying for private primary to make sure they get into grammar for senior. They don't want to admit it or talk about it, so often don't fully realise this isn't the case until Y4 or 5. Tutors around here are booked up solid and with so many keeping their 11+ tutors into senior, it's becoming impossible for anyone on a normal salary to find or pay for a tutor. Sadly those who could have really benefited from grammar being the "level playing field" it was meant to be get pushed out of the running and if lucky enough to get in, don't benefit from the continued extra tutoring due to cost and network of mum's with sharp elbows. I'm mid 40's and don't remember tutoring being a thing even 20 years ago? I may be wrong.

Private schools don't need to stick to progress 8.

If you have an arty child a private school can allow them to take GCSEs in art, photography, drama, music. In a state school they can probably do one of those.

“An all through private definitely wouldn't give any help to pass 11+, it wouldn't be in their interest to do so. But I also can't see them 'holding back' children's learning, this also wouldn't be in their interest because they are also aiming for good results at GCSE surely.

State primaries also don't give any help to pass 11+ either though, you need to get external tutor for that.

I'm pretty sure only schools that would do this would be Preps.”

All through schools may focus on foreign languages, long specialist art classes, lots of music and drama lessons, computing OVER having tons and tons of Maths and English lessons and they won’t do verbal and non verbal reasoning lessons. In English they may focus more on reading ahead and detailed descriptive writing and creative type writing (many grammars do not assess for creative writing). So they will be teaching with a view to GCSEs potentially and doing computing and Maths competitions. The kids will not necessarily do as well as they could have in KS2 style SATS because that is not the focus. So they may not even know some of the grammar terms and they may not be that good at the multi step maths problems.
11 plus preps for grammar will have to cover 1 year ahead of the Maths curriculum, do more English type comprehension and will do verbal and non verbal reasoning lessons. So they won’t necessarily offer Mandarin or drama on the timetable. It is worth enquiring exactly what a school teaches and how it timetables.

Our state primary did not cover verbal and non verbal, but they certainly were good preparation for the English part of the 11 plus in our area and certainly were quite good at the Maths part especially word problems and multi step problems (although we had to go over the Year 6 Maths curriculum ourselves at home in advance as some of the 11 plus for grammar tested material which is taught during Year 6).

Also the advice to use state and then top up with tutoring as necessary presumes that you are going to be able to find suitable tutors.

For maths, in particular, it seems virtually impossible to find a GCSE/A Level tutor for face to face teaching even if you are prepared to pay silly money.

This sounds great, I did the 11+ prep as a kid and remember finding the verbal and non verbal reasoning very boring.. the all through school also does not do SATS so I guess they don't need to worry about preparing for those style questions.

Our state primary didn't prep for the 11+ but they did do a CATs test a week beforehand, which has the non-verbal etc on it. I suspect this was to give kids who had never seen those questions a fighting chance. Frankly, as around 80% of the class were being tutored I do think we benefited vicariously as the kids were clearly surpassing what they were expected and being in a class of kids with few lagging behind must be beneficial to DC who aren't being tutored to some extent.