Is anyone else worried about the effect of rising private school fees on state schools?

[BabyIcecream]

Where I live there already aren't enough school places. Three big state secondary's, one is catholic, they are all over subscribed and bursting at the seams using old buildings with not enough funding.

Ive seen reports that at some private schools upto a third of pupils might leave if the fees go up due to VAT.

I'm worried about all these extra pupils needing places, DS already finds his school overcrowded and whilst I don't agree with private education putting extra pupils into the state system is just going to further disadvantage our children.

Unless money raised by increasing private schools costs is going to be used to fund state education? Does anyone know?

No. Delighted. I hope it's the end of private schools. Disgusting concept. See the Finnish model.

Me too.

I’ve never seen the problem with private schools personally, it creates more space for those who don’t want to pay.

I am surprised to hear this morning the policy would be implemented immediately and in full if Labour get elected. I thought there would be some kind of phasing to lessen the impact on the state school system. I think there is a plan to use the funds raised to improve the education system but money can't be spent instantly and typically takes time to take effect so could be a a tricky time.

The arguments against are mainly around entrenching inequality. Rich kids get a better eduction and this enables them to get better jobs and earn more money. The rich stay rich and it's harder for kids from state schools to succeed given there are a finite number of good jobs available at the end of it all. Obviously it's a complex issue but I think that's the crux of it.

I'm not worried. I doubt there's going to be a mass exodus from private schools to state.

I don't think it'll be the problem some are claiming. Private schools are in competition with each other in the marketplace, as ever the successful and flexible ones will survive, especially the ones sitting on £ millions of assets, and the ones already failing will close, and probably have their premises bought up by the better run schools.

If the parents invested the amount they could afford to pay a private school into their child's state school surely that would be a brilliant solution for everyone?

If that’s the issue, why not get rid of private schools altogether, though, rather than making then inaccessible only to the families who have only just managed to afford the fees until now?

I’m not in favour of private schools at all and think they should never have been allowed in the first place. But we are where we are. If we get rid of them now all that will happen is state schools will become increasingly oversubscribed and increasingly underfunded. House prices near to the best state schools will become even more astronomically expensive as those who used to pay school fees move towards the most desirable state schools so the system won’t even up anyway. The poorest always lose out. I live in an area with one very oversubscribed (and chronically unfounded - no pupil premium money) state secondary, but this is a faith school. The other secondary doesn’t have a very good reputation but is still full so many people locally send their children private. If they stopped due to an increase in fees there wouldn’t be enough school places locally.

They’d expect the same level/standard of education and facilities then and that costs millions not £17-£18k per child a year

The average rise in fees at private schools last year was 7%, with many being over 10%, and the number of students on private school rolls increased.

There is no reason to think the same will not be the case if VAT were added to what is after all a luxury item.

No. School rolls are falling where I am and the private schools are unbelievably oversubscribed. Absolutely none of the private school parents I know would take their child out and put them in state school. For those with younger children making the decision, then there isn't the same pressure on school places that there is with older ones. Primary schools near me that used to be impossible to get into if you weren't two roads away now have spaces in most years.

So I'm not worried about it at all and I think it is only right that they pay VAT

Meant to quote to reply to:
“cupofdecaf · Today 09:58

If the parents invested the amount they could afford to pay a private school into their child's state school surely that would be a brilliant solution for everyone?”

I’m not sure that those parents get a great deal from that?

On average primary school rolls across the country are falling, and secondary schools will in a few years time. It is a simple question of demographics and having a falling birth rate.

Irrespective of the rights or wrongs of private schools , the parents are funding state places via taxation on not using them.
if they are forced to use those places the funding for schools will be spread even thinner as there won’t me additional funding put in

Also the changes in Vat aren't what they seem. they'll be able to claim VAT back once they add VAT to their fees so it's not a straight 20% increase.

Yes indeed. I would love it if there were no state schools. They are not necessary.

I think the big issue is going to be the number of prep schools that close. My DC are in private education albeit older teens now and I would be thinking very carefully about putting them in a pre-prep now.

Fees went up a lot this year, if they keep doing 7% per year and VAT on top then it will become too expensive for a lot of people. Good senior schools will survive but it will be the impact on state primary schools that will be bigger I think.

@cupofdecaf we already pay taxes for state schools. Why should it be up to private parents to pay to improve state schools? Lots of wealthy parents chose state schools, why don't you ask them to contribute to improving their current schools? Why is the onus always on private school parents to improve the state sector when we already pay our taxes so are paying for something we don't use.

I'm going to be moving my kids to state school now and they were at private school. I'm just one example obviously and lots of others might not.

It's not just the extra cost, which is massive (and that's before business rates and everything else is charged). It's also part of a general move to think that private school kids don't deserve their results. Why make my kids feel that and face it at uni entry when they'll probably do very well in our local state school? The other middle class parents round here who send their kids to state schools get tutors on top to make sure of that.

I don't think there will be a huge exodus from private schools (although of course some will move into the state system). I do however think that a proportion of kids who might have been sent to private school now won't be so there will inevitably be more pressure on state school places.

I am sure that the Labour Party will be considering this in relation to the policy, as it will be a disaster if a plan designed to level the playing field actually ends up disadvantaging poorer people. Similarly, as private school gets more expensive house prices around popular state schools will rise even more, meaning those on higher incomes will still have more options. You're not wrong to be worried about it, OP.

I think reacting to a discussion of this as if OP is arguing against VAT on fees is unhelpful. You can support VAT on fees and still worry about the unintended consequences.

Private school parents (the vast majority) will find the extra 20%.

No. The IFS looked into this and the state sector can only benefit.
https://www.standard.co.uk/comment/private-schools-tax-breaks-charities-b1093865.html

Bring it on. Only way we will move anywhere remotely closer to equality in this country.