Is anyone else worried about the effect of rising private school fees on state schools?

[BabyIcecream]

Where I live there already aren't enough school places. Three big state secondary's, one is catholic, they are all over subscribed and bursting at the seams using old buildings with not enough funding.

Ive seen reports that at some private schools upto a third of pupils might leave if the fees go up due to VAT.

I'm worried about all these extra pupils needing places, DS already finds his school overcrowded and whilst I don't agree with private education putting extra pupils into the state system is just going to further disadvantage our children.

Unless money raised by increasing private schools costs is going to be used to fund state education? Does anyone know?

No they won't. They'll pay for their own private tutors or will go abroad.

Me too! It was a different world teaching under the last Labour Government, compared to the last 13 years of total chaos.

I think grammars create bad schools. In areas that don’t have them there is a better mix of students in each school. The non grammars in grammar areas are self fulfilling prophecies.

@ReadyForPumpkins a lot of wealthy parents already send their kids to state school. Why is it always the responsibility of private school parents to raise standards in the state sector. Why can't current state parents fight to do this?
Why would the schools/government listen to a small % of private parents over the 100,000s of current state school parents?
Yet again the "all private schools are uber elite and like Eton" myth.

That’s because all the MPs and rich have no vested interest in state schools so they consistently vote to underfund state schools. Crumbling schools failing to teach children doesn’t matter to them because it doesn’t affect their children.

If their vote and decisions affected their children along with ours, they’d care a bit more and vote to fund state schools properly.

I reckon only a handful might go abroad, despite what they threaten. I doubt others will ‘just’ get private tutors for their child though instead of being in school. They would either find the funds to stay in private or leave, go to state school and get a private tutor for some subjects after school. Loads of people do that anyway-state or private.

Studies have shown that rich people threatening to go abroad is usually bluffing.

We state school parents do fight.

@TrailingLoellia but the VAT won't affect them as they are wealthy so they won't change their habits or views. Putting VAT on will do nothing to change anything in the state sector as you yourself have pointed out, they people who can effect change don't care. Therefore it is pointless.

This can only make private education more inaccessible, more elitist and drive it further into foreign markets. It's a huge own goal that won't have any meaningful positive impact on education in the state sector. Even if it raises 1.5b (which it won't), it's a small fraction of the education budget that Labour will soon determine that they can win more votes spending that money elsewhere.

@TrailingLoellia then why haven't you been successful and why do you think I, as a private parent, would be more successful than you have been?

Plus Brexit. Less people in London for sure. If I look at the catchment area for a few state schools in my area they are very slightly larger than pre 2019.

Private schools are closing down in bunches as people can't afford them, so the remaining ones see rolls increase but overall more kids are going to state schools. The situation is so bad the government has ordered Private schools to offer 10% of students full bursaries to be given to local state school applicants to decrease the over crowding of state school classrooms. Raising the costs is politically attractive but in reality financially damaging to state schools, communities and students.

The Uk is becoming a proper race to the bottom. Fix the state schools first! Focus on levelling up. You will lose wealthy highly educated families to abroad. We already lost a significant slice post brexit. We are shipping out our phd students as fast as we mint them because there's no investment money in the uk anymore. I really don't know who they think is going to be left for net contributors exactly?

This is a good thread from a few months ago on this topic:

It is a very difficult issue - private schools are not a charity so why should they have charitable status. That said I think that to change this in one go is too much - a gradual change might be better, however, I do think there will be other ways in which the independent schools will be able to either avoid the full tax burden or gain other income/ etc so I am not sure the impact will be as great as people say it will. I think private schools have a place and people have a choice how to spend their money - I am not anti the private sector.

This argument is all about political points versus reality as these threads continually show. When the governments raised taxes to 50% for those earning over £150,000 what happened? Oh right, government receipts DECLINED by over £50 million! Get rid of private schools what would happen? State school overcrowding and rampant educational decline. The government requirement for bursaries was a limited and therefore right minded action I think but about as far as the idea can go.

I don’t think getting a private education is the benefit it was once. I work in HR and leadership and employee networks are putting themselves under a huge amount of pressure to hire a VERY minimal amount of people who went to private school. I am seeing almost weekly people discounted from processes for this reason, and I think it will continue. HR colleagues in different industries say the same.
I am also worried about the impact on state school places if they are removed.

Can you explain why they’re not charities?

Some of the most expensive, more well known, private schools have huge capital expenditure (pools, science and technology blocks etc). They cannot claim the VAT back on that expenditure at the moment, which would change. They could also potentially claim back the VAT on expenditure going back several years.

They weren't bluffing in the 70s when huge numbers of the likes of authors, artists, etc went abroad to avoid Labour's huge "unearned income" tax levels.

Nigel Mansell wasn't bluffing when he moved to the Isle of Man to avoid UK taxes.

Lewis Hamilton wasn't bluffing when he bought a private jet through the Isle of Man to avoid UK VAT.

David Frost wasn't bluffing when he lived abroad to avoid UK tax but flew in and out of the UK every Sunday to present his Sunday morning TV show.

Usain Bolt wasn't bluffing when he refused to attend London's Olympic games until he (and other Olympic athletes) secured a sweetheart deal exempting them from UK tax on their earnings!

Not really. Big positive is that if kids with parents who have sharp elbows go into state, standards may well be pushed up by said parents. Can bet your life state would improve quick, sharp if Ministers’ kids were educated there.

How would you have stopped them? They’ve been around for centuries and centuries, well
before universal free state education existed.

I think in lower years it not a big issue due to demographic changes. In fact some state primaries have closed. Maybe it would be a good thing in lower years for more pupils to enter the state system?

There won't be a mass exodus. The majority of parents who choose private are insulated from cost of living and will just find a way to reach the extra. Very few will pull out. And finally some tax income to invest in the state system. God knows it needs it.