Don't seem to like private schooling

[Chickpea17]

So off the back of a thread I just seen why do so many people on MN seem to dislike private schooling so much? I'm not judging one way or another just curious.
I have a almost 5 year old and we can't afford private schooling so haven't given it much thought.

Your argument is the exact reason why grammar schools exist. To give a standard of education more in line with private school, but free.

@Wenfy You just keep thinking and saying that. You are rather making my point, though!

Your argument is the exact reason why grammar schools exist. To give a standard of education more in line with private school, but free.

But why should there be different standards in different schools? Why create the division in the first place?

How does abolishing private school get rid of any of this privilege?

It wouldn't, but it would be a way of reducing the privilege and potentially raising the bar in state schoold. Doing something, anything, of reducing the gap between the rich (you) and everyone else is a good thing. My DH went to a very well to do public school. He's very clever. I went to a state school. I'm very clever. Difference being that my parents had absolutely no choice. They couldn't afford it no matter what they sacrificed. To suggest that somehow he was more deserving of all of the opportunities he got, and that his parents cared any more than mine, or worked any less hard, is insulting.

If all state comprehensives were properly resourced and provided great education then people wouldn't search elsewhere be it private, grammar or faith. Or if they did it wouldn't be on educational grounds.

I honestly believe that if the only available schools were comprehensive then parents/ carers would channel their energy and funds into them.

You have to go back to the introduction of education, there has always been a split between academic Vs vocational education to meet the needs of white Vs blue collar workers. That system worked in that type of society however society has now changed but the education system hasn't.
Just abolishing private schools doesn't solve the issue and no political party is willing to invest the billions required in the state sector to modernise the system.

Grammar schools are, if anything, even more socially divisive and damaging than private schools!

Exactly so why isn't there as much hate for them?
Oh is it because more MNetters send their DC to grammar school than private school? 🤔 It is OK for them to send their DC to grammar but not for us to send ours private.

I'm an advocate of comprehensive for all but I think grammars are not as vilified because they don't result in the networks of privilege that many private schools do. They are also not available nationwide.

@twistyizzy -I presume you have never frequented a grammar school thread!

@twistyizzy Also, grammar schools are, at least theoretically, accessible to anyone, regardless of income. They aren't, of course, but people think they are.

Just abolishing private schools doesn't solve the issue and no political party is willing to invest the billions required in the state sector to modernise the system.

No you're right. Only abolishing wouldn't help, but abolishing them (along with grammars and selective schools), getting rid of league tables, perhaps making OFSTED results unpublished to general public, and putting more emphasis on vocational subjects and extra curriculars within all schools might help. I hate the attitude of 'oh if it won't completely solve the issue don't bother. It wouldn't completely solve it. It would help. It'd be a start.

It's irrelevant to me what political parties think. The tories and the red tories obviously only seek to perpetuate the gap and are only interested in rich people like yourself. So they'll do what benefits you. The question wasn't 'what do you think will happen?' it was 'what is your opinion on private schools?' and that's mine. Fuck them all off and at least try to even things out.

Some of my family is from Finland. There are no private schools. It is a million times better for everyone.

Yes I have plus I went to grammar school

It is full of parents buying an advantage for their children by paying for 1-2 years tutoring for the 11+ exam 🤣🤣Then the children spending free time sitting numerous exams/interviews followed by lots of middle class hand wringing about whether their DC have got in because they don't want their child going to local inadequate state school. They don't get slated for that though 🙄

@twistyizzy Yes they do! The grammar school system is regularly condemned on here, often by the same people who condemn private schools. I'm sorry that doesn't fit your narrative.

I honestly havent seen any slating of grammar schools. My only agenda is to point out that closing all private schools won't solve the problems of state education. At least k try to educate myself on the subject unlike some posters. Ironically I would happily pay higher taxes to improve state schools but sadly that won't happen because there is no political will for it.
I will never apologise for doing the best I can do for my child and yes that is unequal to what others can offer but we earn more so unless there is complete redistribution of wealth there will always be that educational inequality. In an ideal world we wouldn't need private school.

@twistyizzy some of your points are well made, but it's completely wrong to say that the grammar school system doesn't come in for criticism on MN – it most certainly does, constantly (not least by me 😂) and on almost every relevant thread.

I do have to say though that the idea there are hundreds of families buying up houses in nice areas so their DCs can go to grammar schools is a massive exaggeration – it's an old trope that always comes up but the stats show there are a handful who do this every year. It is as tired a cliche as the one which says all parents who send their DCs to private school are very wealthy.

Jealousy pure and simple. Honestly say if your child(ren) were offered a full scholarship or some other means of paying (that couldn't be used for anything else) you would turn it down.

It's easy to smugly say you don't believe in private education when you can't afford it! My children attended state school and quite frankly if i could have afforded it I would have pulled dd1 who struggled in her failing school, managed to get dd2 into a better state school (no grammar schools at all in my county).

Bursaries are not the answer- they don't create equal chances for people who are just not wealthy enough to get into private school.

The fact that you think that this is enough to create equality of opportunity shows how little you understand about the poverty in the UK. Which is exactly the point of everyone arguing for state schools over private on this thread - private schools generate a bunch of entitled elite who think they've made it though their own talent and that poor people are poor because they just don't work hard enough.

I agree that private schools should be abolished and I utterly refute the idea that doing so would result in a race to the bottom.

(Whoever said that - cba to scroll back and find out - is exposing their possibly subconscious prejudice right there. State school kids are literally lower down than private school ones??)

If rich people and their frequently attendant sense of entitlement had to send their children to state schools, they would put immense pressure on politicians to raise funding for teaching, resources and infrastructure, and to improve standards across the board. Those holding political power appear to cravenly bend to the will of the rich so they would comply. Every child, and wider society, would benefit from the increased investment and from exposure to the real lives of people with whom they would otherwise never mix.

P.S can anyone provide a synonym for "bakes in"? I feel like I have a word on the tip of my tongue but can't quite grasp it!

@gogohmm Extraordinary that you have such insight into others thoughts and motivation. You are wrong about me at least. But I know you won't believe me.

@LauderSyme "entrench"?

@CurlewKate

Most parts of the country do not have grammar schools so by definition they aren't theoretically accessible to everybody. I lived in a city of 300k, wider county 500k, not a single selective state school, ditto all surrounding counties. Nearest grammar 1 hour 20 minutes by train, I know this because I took dc there for an orchestral event

Yes clichés on both sides but the attack against private school DC/parents always gets personal eg entitled, elite, snobs, out of touch etc.

@CurlewKate Thankyou! That's the one, have been mouthing "eh..." to myself since this morning 😊