Don't seem to like private schooling

[Chickpea17]

So off the back of a thread I just seen why do so many people on MN seem to dislike private schooling so much? I'm not judging one way or another just curious.
I have a almost 5 year old and we can't afford private schooling so haven't given it much thought.

Because it's just another method by which people with lots of money gain privilege that isn't available to those who can't afford it.

Smaller class sizes
More diverse learning
Better resources
Networking which leads to nepotism

Because people don't like seeing others have things they don't.

@FatAgainItsLettuceTime out of interest (assuming you agree with the reasons you’ve stated) are you also against home educating and are you against parents paying for tutors outside of (state) school? I’m just wondering where you draw the line as both those options are only open to parenrs with the financial resources and both can give children additional advantages.

Because it bakes in unearned privilege. Most people realise on some level that the amount of money one has does not reflect one's actual worth as a human being. Money is not distributed fairly based upon merit and the real value added to society by the individual; in fact quite often the polar opposite is true.

I completely understand what you're saying, but surely that's just the way of life. Rich people will always have more opportunities and privilege than poor people.

Because it’s buying an unfair advantage that not only benefits the child but actively disadvantages those around them who are poorer.

‘Don’t hate me, hate the politicians who won’t fund state schools properly!’ They cry. Totally overlooking the fact the politicians won’t find them because they send their own kids private and it all feeds into a vicious cycle.

*fund

Jealousy usually.

Everyone wants their kids to have the best.

@Chickpea17 yes it is axiomatic that the rich have more opportunities and privileges. But they use their wealth to accrue more and more power and privilege unto themselves; private schooling exemplifies this tendency and is a firm foundation for continued inequality.

I think societies should work to broaden and deepen opportunities for everyone, because it is simply not fair that one's life chances are so inevitably based upon the family one is born into. And no, life isn't fair but why actively make it even less so?!

Yeah but I just wonder where do you draw the line?
I.e private tutoring after school or home schooling.

I think there are lots of reasons, but one is the number of people in 'top jobs' who went to elite schools. People feel its not just buying an education but buying influence and power through the judiciary, politics, journalism, diplomats etc where a small number of schools are very over represented.

I dont actually think this is very relevant for small town, mid range independents but people havent got time to chunk up the independent sector into different things.

I will declare an interest as my son goes to an independent SEN school for children with complex additional needs. It is paid for by the LA through his ehcp. there was no state school that could meet his needs so if he wasnt at this school he would not have a school at all. He isnt going to be a judge or a journalist though.

But they don't begrudge

1. Parents paying for tutoring
2. Grammar schools
3. Moving to a catchment area for a better school
4. Paying for extracurricular activities that aren't available to alll children

Sadly, it really comes down to jealousy. That's the reality of it...

No judgment if someone spends all their money on holidays and designer bags, but lots of judgment when people spend their money on education. The U.K. is such a bizarre place sometimes!

Some of it is inverted snobbery, they will deny it but it is a fact. What highlights this is that other ethnicities within the UK value private education (there have been threads on mumsnet) and see it something to aspire to.
Then there is the presumptio that only very rich people send their children to private schools, and that all private schools are like Eton etc. Obviously this p.o.v is only expressed by people who have little or no experience of the private sector because the majority are middle earners, lots of SEN children are sent private and a good % will be on means tested bursaries. These people ignore the factor of many parents spending as much as a privateveducsyok on a house in the catchment areas of outstanding schools/the grammar school system + private tutoring.
I acknowledge the traditional advantage private school have given with regards to access to HE but this is diminishing and yet just as many parents are sending their DC to private school. This is because most of us don't send our DC private because we want them to have an advantage in life, we do it because we want them to enjoy their school years and thrive in areas that state schools can't offer.

This 100%.

Honestly if I could give you a round of applause on here I would. DD has SEN (ASD) we send her to private because State Primaries, frankly, are shit when it comes to SEN and for kids like her Ofsted ratings can be meaningless. My DD would have done very well academically at State but her Private supports her with the stuff she wasn’t good at - and now the clever little girl who was non-verbal and in nappies until she was 5 is on a sports scholarship at her private secondary (after passing 11+).

For DS who has all the signs of ADHD he definitely needs a school which focusses on small class sizes and sports. For him I actually did consider State but even the local Outstanding ones only played sports once a week. If I wanted daily sports activities I needed to pay privately and just that alone would have cost me as much as 500/mth and involve me driving him around our county. Add on music lessons and languages and I’m paying £800 - might as well pay a bit extra and go private.

From The Guardian

’What particularly defines British private education is its extreme social exclusivity. Only about 6% of the UK’s school population attend such schools, and the families accessing private education are highly concentrated among the affluent. At every rung of the income ladder there are a small number of private-school attenders; but it is only at the very top, above the 95th rung of the ladder – where families have an income of at least £120,000 – that there are appreciable numbers of private-school children. At the 99th rung – families with incomes upwards of £300,000 – six out of every 10 children are at private school.’

Private schools have (generally) much smaller class sizes and a much better teacher to student ratio. You’ll see posts on here about how teachers at private schools don’t actually have to have recognised teaching qualifications, which is true, but the reality is that good private schools have excellent, highly qualified, experienced teachers with degrees in the subjects they teach. Teachers do the teaching, not TAs. That’s because the schools have the budgets to hire those people. Children whose behaviour disrupts the class and impacts the learning of other pupils are asked to leave.

The children who go to private schools are being given a huge educational advantage when they already have a huge advantage - they’re the DC of the very high earners. I don’t think people would be as anti public schools if state schools were adequately funded.

NQTs have to start somewhere but when they’re hired because that’s all the school can afford and the staff becomes unbalanced, when maximum class sizes are set unrealistically high, when schools have to rely on volunteers so that each child is heard reading every week, when children with additional needs are unsupported/insufficiently supported/denied places at schools that would meet their needs and they aren’t learning or are a physical risk to themselves or others, when experienced teachers are left covering subjects outside their comfort zone, dealing with aggressive behaviour from teenagers, unsupported by management and close to burnout, when school buildings are crumbling, when teachers are putting their hands in their pockets for basic equipment, that’s not a level playing field.

A lot of it is jealousy, assumptions and feeling like the world owes them something.

We, but my husband in particular have worked and he continues to work SO hard and never switches off to have put us in the financial position we are in. Totally self made, never a penny of help from anywhere not even a govt grant - just sheer determination, A LOT of risk and good business decisions.
We employ a large team and pay them well. I’m giving my children the best possible start to life and all of the opportunities I possibly can because we have put ourselves into a position to be able to do so. Which I won’t apologise for. Fee increases in the future may mean we need to lose a car for a while or drop a holiday - but my goodness I wouldn’t DARE complain on here 🤭

I know I am incredibly fortunate (it’s not luck) to be in this position and I hope my children with their fantastic education and experiences they will have will one day also employ and pay people well and do their bit to change the world for the better.
They’re not there to be better than anyone else, they’re there because I’m giving them the absolute best I can which is all anyone wants to do. Life isn’t fair, we can’t all be in the same position and wealthier people should be demonised.

There are families at school in the same position as us, some with well paid jobs, some with family money, some who put every single last penny into their children’s schooling. Huge range of incomes.

Should NOT be demonised 😂 fantastic omission.

Just to add, my husband didn’t ‘agree’ with private education until he could afford it. I was privately educated, he wasn’t.

Private schools mean different things for different people. People think they provide a better education but a lot of this is down to selection. State schools often get better academic results than private, and this is despite the fact they have to accommodate everyone. Teaching in private schools isn't necessarily better quality and they often don't have to adhere to other strict standards, which may or may not be imposed by Ofsted. They are also notoriously unaccountable for other reasons. Hopefully many of the historic abuse scandals have now been exposed but the lack of transparency makes private schools more likely to be corrupt. See the Eton breach of exam security. They also register as charities - meaning they receive tax benefits (as do the parents). Many use their profits to invest in land and other assets, and some are considering expanding overseas. Meanwhile, growing academisation of the UK's schools make the problem of the postcode lottery even greater....

It is parents' right to choose their children's school, and private schools sometimes fill the gap where the state cannot, as some pps have noted. But they also perpetuate systemic inequality in this country, which the government is not addressing with adequate funding to state schools. School is not simply about academic attainment, it is about socialisation, and encouraging children to hold values of integrity, empathy and inclusion highly. Clearly that's a missing outcome of many private schools, the individuals that to come out of them do not seem to have any of those values- such a waste of that privilege.

Because state education is in a dire situation and 90% have no choice but to use it. It's not fair that some people can buy better and most can't. I have no problem with people needing to pay for elite extras. But consistent teachers, good teaching and resources should be available to everyone and they aren't.

And yet again someone who classes all private school pupils as entitled and quotes Eton as an example. Are you aware that the majority of private schools are local, they serve local communities (many of which are rural) and also have boarders from abroad who bring wider cultures and ethnicities than the geographical area the school is located in? In our area there are zero ethnic minorities in the closest stare secondary school, at her private school 25% are Asian so she experiences wider ethnic diversity than if she went to state school.
You obviously have little or no experience of local private schools as you state that:
"School is not simply about academic attainment, it is about socialisation, and encouraging children to hold values of integrity, empathy and inclusion highly. Clearly that's a missing outcome of many private schools, the individuals that to come out of them do not seem to have any of those values- such a waste of that privilege"
The irony is that we send DD private BECAUSE of its high values of integrity, community spirit empathy and inclusion.
Stop perpetuating lazy stereotypes.

In our area there are zero ethnic minorities in the closest stare secondary school, at her private school 25% are Asian so she experiences wider ethnic diversity than if she went to state school.

You must be devastated your DC missed out on the richness of economic diversity in state schools, what a shame.

Again with the lazy stereotyping and assumptions. 25% of DDs year are on means tested bursaries so yes there is a good mix of income and social levels. But hey that would go against your preconceptions of entitled, rich kids wouldn't it!

Worth all of 10%, most likely.

I guess it's partly that I see it as grossly unfair and partly because I went to one and hated it. I don't think I was well suited to school overall but definitely not the competitive environment at private school. I hate how ungrateful this makes me sound but I wish I had been able to spend time with my parents as a child instead of them working every hour to scrape together the money for school. I am grateful but I don't feel that I was worth that sacrifice and I didn't understand what they were doing for me at the time. I now have the same job as my husband who went to state and did an access course so I feel like they completely wasted their money and I'd rather have had a childhood with them in it more.

Jeez you are incredibly lazy aren't you? Actually they range from 10% through to 100%.
Maybe edycate yourself before criticising something you have no experience or knowledge of. You are just making yourself look extremely prejudiced.