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Original poster

Don't seem to like private schooling

269 replies

Chickpea17 · 26/04/2023 10:55

So off the back of a thread I just seen why do so many people on MN seem to dislike private schooling so much? I'm not judging one way or another just curious.
I have a almost 5 year old and we can't afford private schooling so haven't given it much thought.

OP posts:
SoTedious · 27/04/2023 18:23

not all humans are altruistic in nature

This is it in a nutshell really - whatever the system there will always be people who can happily live with buying extra advantage for their already privileged child, with no compunction about closing doors to more able but less lucky children in the process.

SoTedious · 27/04/2023 18:28

Therefore the richest in our society are likely to be more intelligent and capable than the poorest.

Income is not linked to intelligence though - compare the take home pay of a footballer and a teacher, for example.

WoolyAndYug · 27/04/2023 18:32

@SoTedious

Speaking generally obviously there are exceptions.

SoTedious · 27/04/2023 18:43

Even speaking generally...

People are not paid according to how intelligent they are, they are paid according to market forces surrounding the job they do and how long they have been doing it. You can't rank professions by intelligence required, some artists are more intelligent than some lawyers, some civil servants are more intelligent than some bankers. It doesn't make any sense.

Labraradabrador · 27/04/2023 18:45

@BreathesOutSlowly you are twisting yourself in knots in defence of a half-baked hypothesis.

more people are affected by ambulance service issues (and more broadly the NHS) than education, there is tremendous demand for change across all political parties, and yet little sign of meaningful change. I disagree that the issues with schools are simple - look at any of the teacher strike boards and you will be disabused of the notion that more money will offer a panacea.

if 97% of parents cannot improve schools, I am not sure what me and my kids classmates are going to achieve. If private schools were abolished the truly uber wealthy will board abroad or tutor at home.

WoolyAndYug · 27/04/2023 18:48

Some are of course.

But if you measured the whole of society there would be a positive correlation between intelligence and wealth. Exceptions along the way but broadly speaking the more intelligent you are, the more earning power you have.

Children going to into private schools are on average more intelligent and have more engaged parents who value education more highly than those going into state schools. Give these children the extra resources of private school, expose them to a much broader variety of sports and experiences, allow them to mix in competitive circles with high achieving peers and it's no wonder they go on to be more well rounded and high achieving generally than people who had a state education.

bumpetybumpbump · 27/04/2023 18:50

I also think private school is an east scapegoat. Much easier to blame private schooling for social inequality than admit that many of us partake in and benefit from it.

BreathesOutSlowly · 27/04/2023 19:00

@Labraradabrador not at all knotted. And I didn't say that the education issue isn't complicated. Just less complicated. I actually think that your attitude is defeatist but understandable. It is possible to force change like this but I think it takes an environment that is less stressed than our own currently is to achieve.

@bumpetybumpbump it isn't a scapegoat. It is a well known cause of social inequality. There are many others of course. But private education is a low hanging fruit that could be easily remedied. I know it won't be but a girl can dream.

Hawkins003 · 27/04/2023 19:04

Labraradabrador · 27/04/2023 18:14

But we don’t all want or need the same things?

Show quote history

I understand and agree, I was following on with your point basically agreeing with you against others that want the one size fits all.

SoTedious · 27/04/2023 19:04

Children going to into private schools are on average more intelligent

😂 have you got any data to back this up? I guess you could say that children going into academically selective schools are on average more intelligent but that's not the same thing at all.

and have more engaged parents who value education more highly than those going into state schools.

Or this? Do you realise how offensive this is?

it's no wonder they go on to be more well rounded and high achieving generally than people who had a state education

Again what is your evidence for this - how do you define well rounded, for example?

tenbob · 27/04/2023 19:05

LauderSyme · 26/04/2023 18:33

I agree that private schools should be abolished and I utterly refute the idea that doing so would result in a race to the bottom.

(Whoever said that - cba to scroll back and find out - is exposing their possibly subconscious prejudice right there. State school kids are literally lower down than private school ones??)

If rich people and their frequently attendant sense of entitlement had to send their children to state schools, they would put immense pressure on politicians to raise funding for teaching, resources and infrastructure, and to improve standards across the board. Those holding political power appear to cravenly bend to the will of the rich so they would comply. Every child, and wider society, would benefit from the increased investment and from exposure to the real lives of people with whom they would otherwise never mix.

P.S can anyone provide a synonym for "bakes in"? I feel like I have a word on the tip of my tongue but can't quite grasp it!

Wouldn’t rich people just send their kids to boarding schools overseas though?

not all of them, granted, but what’s the difference between a couple of hours in the car to the school vs a couple of hours on a plane.
And all the private companies and hedge funds that own (profitable) schools won’t just shrug and shut up shop if there was a ban

They would buy up every site in Ireland and France and build new schools there which were fairly commutable, thus creating a new layer of super elite who can still privately educate while those who can’t flood into packed state schools

And let’s not also forget that the point at which we’ve reached a political point that private schools are banned, society will have fundamentally shifted in so many other ways that ‘the rich’ will be long gone overseas if they can help it.

Labraradabrador · 27/04/2023 19:22

@Hawkins003 sorry - misread your post!

@BreathesOutSlowly maybe I am cynical, but I am unwilling to sacrifice my child’s education today on the alter of some promised future ideal. I am also highly sceptical of future ideals - in the rare instance they are realised they usually come with some unpleasant unanticipated consequences.

I am all for investing in state schools, and view better provision as critical for our economy but I don’t understand how destroying a segment that is working well for many will improve the bits that aren’t. I also am fundamentally opposed to any reduction in choice. I believe we should aim to broaden access to choices, and actually think broader access to private education is more likely to drive improvements in state provision

CurlewKate · 27/04/2023 19:41

Fair enough. It's impossible to discuss with someone who is prepared to put their own wishes before anyone else's.

SoTedious · 27/04/2023 19:47

In our family the phrase we use to describe this is "fuck you, I'm rich" - usually following a bit of dickish/selfish driving by someone in an expensive car. This thread has reminded me of it though.

Hawkins003 · 27/04/2023 19:50

CurlewKate · 27/04/2023 19:41

Fair enough. It's impossible to discuss with someone who is prepared to put their own wishes before anyone else's.

If you would to improve society or the education system you would need a handful of influential people with deep pockets and the will to achieve more

CurlewKate · 27/04/2023 19:56

Sorry. Wrong thread.

Hawkins003 · 27/04/2023 19:56

CurlewKate · 27/04/2023 19:56

Sorry. Wrong thread.

Fair point

AbsoIutelyLovely · 27/04/2023 20:16

WoolyAndYug · 27/04/2023 18:48

Some are of course.

But if you measured the whole of society there would be a positive correlation between intelligence and wealth. Exceptions along the way but broadly speaking the more intelligent you are, the more earning power you have.

Children going to into private schools are on average more intelligent and have more engaged parents who value education more highly than those going into state schools. Give these children the extra resources of private school, expose them to a much broader variety of sports and experiences, allow them to mix in competitive circles with high achieving peers and it's no wonder they go on to be more well rounded and high achieving generally than people who had a state education.

More engaged parents?

NO. Wealthier parents. Big difference and an obnoxious statement to make.

Mopscharlotte · 27/04/2023 20:34

Two off mine are privately educated , two not …. No big car on my non drive way . Just lots of hard work to give them the best , no holidays , no big tellies .
one with profound dyslexia … private school great . One gifted not so great for him as he’s a free thinker apart from telling him how to dress ( don’t agree) and Lantin . The other two state education loved it and been happy in live great jobs

Talkwhilstyouwalk · 27/04/2023 20:46

WoolyAndYug · 27/04/2023 18:48

Some are of course.

But if you measured the whole of society there would be a positive correlation between intelligence and wealth. Exceptions along the way but broadly speaking the more intelligent you are, the more earning power you have.

Children going to into private schools are on average more intelligent and have more engaged parents who value education more highly than those going into state schools. Give these children the extra resources of private school, expose them to a much broader variety of sports and experiences, allow them to mix in competitive circles with high achieving peers and it's no wonder they go on to be more well rounded and high achieving generally than people who had a state education.

Ok some are academically selective (to an extent and most cannot afford to be particularly so) but on the whole I disagree that the average private school kid is naturally more intelligent than the average state school kid. Many have just been prepped and pushed to pass the bullshit exams. I also think it's really unfair to say that private school kids have more engaged parents! If this is how some parents of private school children think then it's no wonder so many mumsnetters are against the idea. I am considering private school for my kids but not because I think that the people who go there are of a higher calibre or have parents with greater aspirations. I just want my kids to find their strengths and to have a good education.

twistyizzy · 27/04/2023 20:54

@Talkwhilstyouwalk that is the overwhelming reason why so many of us chose private: so our kids can find their strengths (due to a much more diverse curriculum) and have a good education. We are focused on our DC enjoying school NOW, I'm not looking at 6 years down the line and her destination because so many other factors will influence that.

Refrosty · 27/04/2023 21:24

I find the comments about private healthcare interesting. It's not quite life or death, but I am paying for private speech therapy for my DC who is on the NHS waiting list, and has been for a year. I would never ever expect people to be cross about that choice. But given the fact that there are 4 (maybe more?) other kids in my DC's nursery class on the same waiting list, it does feel very unfair that I can access a therapist at this crucial time, but others might not be able to afford it so will continue to wait. But that's life, it's never going to be fair and I'm sure many of the other parents would do the same. DC's teacher can see the difference with my DC, it was like night and day, the therapist is helping.

Incidentally, and more appropriate for this thread, my local catchment secondary school is not great at all. 20% with English and maths grade 5 (very recent inspection). Teachers come and go. Many parents (who have the means) absolutely DO move into better catchments. Not just closer to best school in the area, some move specifically to be in catchment of the grammars. Nobody can say anything to me that would make me feel bad about choosing an alternative path than sending my kid to our catchment school. And speaking of the catchments! They are tricky bastards aren't they! A new school opened, which meant families were praising fact they had another option ... Except my area didn't end up in catchment. There's a grammar a short drive away. We aren't in catchment, despite this area being more deprived than many other areas of equal distance. Social mobility, whatever. I'm reading some of these posts and wondering what they'd say if faced with choices between schools like ours, heavily tutoring to access the grammar, or private (of varying selection levels).

BreathesOutSlowly · 27/04/2023 21:29

It's not about what is but what might be. In a world where the playing field was levelled slightly by removing a major source of inequality it's worth considering what we could have if more parents were forced to care with what would be left.

Labraradabrador · 27/04/2023 21:37

BreathesOutSlowly · 27/04/2023 21:29

It's not about what is but what might be. In a world where the playing field was levelled slightly by removing a major source of inequality it's worth considering what we could have if more parents were forced to care with what would be left.

Well all I can say is enjoy the fantasy. I think you are drawing some unlikely conclusions, but we will never really know for sure as private schools will never be banned even under labour.

BreathesOutSlowly · 27/04/2023 21:42

@Labraradabrador I feel that introducing vat and cancelling charitable status for private schools may go some way towards this goal. Not far enough obviously.