Don't seem to like private schooling

[Chickpea17]

So off the back of a thread I just seen why do so many people on MN seem to dislike private schooling so much? I'm not judging one way or another just curious.
I have a almost 5 year old and we can't afford private schooling so haven't given it much thought.

I think that this has only arisen because of the lack of availability of grammar schools. If the state had a more even number of comps and grammars on offer, hot housed middle-class kids wouldn't squeeze out clever working class kids. I agree that right now it's completely unfair.

In my country (I'm not British) there is one type of schooling, but are no catchment areas and oversubscribed state schools have entrance exams. They're not as scary as grammar schools at ALL, so it means that there are "normal" schools and slightly more academic schools, but it's not the night and day of comps and grammars, and it feels fairer.

It's just a way to strengthen inequality and unearned privilege in British society.

That's why the establishment and their hangers-on love it so much.

I have children in PS and I went to a state school myself. Dh educated at both.

It IS unfair. I am very aware of the difference and I don’t think it’s fair. It does feed an elitist attitude that sits very uncomfortably with me.

In our school children are unique and treated as individuals, cared for and nurtured. Yes every single child should have that experience.

I would support it - pay more tax for it - make the state schools so exceptional that no one would pay to attend anything else.

What are we prepared to give up to achieve it? It would need to be funded, by tens of billions. We would need to sacrifice something else. Tax would only take us so far.
please don’t say nom dons or something, there are virtually none left

It is about time the children of this country were prioritised. I don’t see that in any political party.

Private schools are a red herring in this inequality situation.

Of course state education is problematic. But there is a particular problem with private schools - people are not just buying a better education (as they would be if they bought a house in a better catchment or hired a tutor).

Privately educated people are disproportionately represented in positions of power. Unlike when someone moves house or hires a tutor, in paying for private education you are also buying undeserved influence. It's unfair and promotes inequality. It's also better for everyone if these positions of power are occupied by the best people, not the richest.

Yes it's the same elitist attitude that created such an unequal class society hundreds of years ago. It bred and enabled generations of men who invaded other people's countries to colonise and enslave them. And it educated the out of touch narcs that run things today.

So let's just have a race to the bottom instead! No party is stating that they are going to properly fund state education so that every child will be guaranteed the chance to learn in a clean and happy environment, with appropriate staffing ratios, up to date equipment and facilities with a broad curriculum that values learning for the joy of learning rather than learning to pass a test.
It would take billions to achieve that and there isn't the political will to do so.

I also would say if there was greater attainment in schools then the reliance on grammars etc would be gone. There wouldn’t be so much competitive pushy behaviour because everyone would know and be confident of excellence and their child’s potential being met, and a university place offered and ready. Counties like Sweden and the Netherlands offer places to all/most students so there isn’t this savage rat race. The universities are all of a good standard and students aren’t saddled with debt in order to learn. It’s just a total disgrace what we have now.

There is no political will to do so because those that could change things went to private school as well.

Private schools should be abolished.

Spot on. Look at university fees. All parties in agreement. Literally no one is speaking up for children as they can’t vote.

The answer is not more of the same.

They've been perpetuating inequality for centuries.

And then the parents of those kids would just put their money into buying houses in the catchment areas of the best state schools, thereby forcing poorer families into poorer areas with poorer schools. So there would still be inequality. Closing private schools doesn't get rid of privilege or financial advantages. It just places a bigger burden on state schools and will increase house price bubbles around catchment areas.

25% of students on a bursary is not an insignificant number and woild most likely be proportionate to the number of kids on FSM in a state school

Are you actually suggesting that the proportion of kids who are / would be entitled to FSM is the same in both sectors? 😂

The number of people on full bursaries who pay absolutely nothing for private school, getting all extras, kit and uniform for free, is tiny.

Private schools are simply not as economically diverse as state schools, they can't possibly be, because they are basically set up to exclude poor people.

Private schools would not be so popular or popular at all if state schools were excellent. People don’t want to pay hundreds of thousands for schooling! They feel they have to.

@ladykale spot on.

Take Dame Alice Owen which is one of the top state schools. You can pay £100k more than a comparable house to live in the tiny catchment area, tutoring for £££ to pass the academic entrance exam or £££ on music tutoring to get a music merit place. For some reason these are all seen as perfectly valid options but paying for a private school isn’t. It doesn’t make sense to me 🤷🏻‍♀️

Of course I'm not saying that but I'm trying to point out that DDs school isn't some wealthy enclave where pupils aren't aware of their privilege or only rich people can afford.
If state schools were better then many parents wouldn't choose private. State schools in many areas AREN'T good.

What though if all schools were excellent? Funded, safe and effective, you wouldn’t see the wealthy flood one area or another, because the standards would be be high across the board. Currently that’s exactly what would happen. Inequality would probably get worse not better.

Of course but that isn't where we are at as a country and I'm sick of hearing that closing private schools will magically solve the problem because it blatantly won't.

Of course that’s ideal world scenario, but other countries with less have achieved parity.

Not at the moment I agree.

If private schools closed altogether I suspect we would see capital flight of the size and magnitude we have never seen before. The country would never recover. We would also be sitting in something that approached communism. No desire or ambition of betterment whatsoever.

If state schools were better then many parents wouldn't choose private. State schools in many areas AREN'T good.

I agree with you there!

Completely agree.
In the school that I work most of our pupils would have taken up grammar school places if they didn't have the choice of an independent school place.

If private schools closed altogether I suspect we would see capital flight of the size and magnitude we have never seen before. The country would never recover. We would also be sitting in something that approached communism. No desire or ambition of betterment whatsoever.

I can't work out whether this is real or a parody 😂

The country recovered after two world wars so I'm sure we would manage.

You think that kids at state schools have no "desire or ambition of betterment"? Even though 75% of kids with the top A level results come from state schools?

I come from a country with very few private schools. Privileged students have plenty of opportunities to build their own networks through out of school activities, benefit from parents being able to move into catchment areas etc. I hear similar views from friends living in Scandinavian counties. Obviously me and my friends is not a representative sample but our experiences give a hint that privilege is much more engrained and no education system can remedy the unfairness of it. Income redistribution and progressive policies can. This being said it should be balanced with the very natural (and beneficial for society in my opinion) instinct of parents to do everything they can to help their children

I do wonder if the people who are anti it actually know anyone who had a private education or anything has children in private?
I went to state, my kids went to private (partially because my eldest did not get into the four nearest state schools we applied to) my friends a mix and their kids a mix.
Unless you are talking about Eton or Charterhouse or similar and are going into politics or law, really there are no advantages connection wise. Most kids I know that went private are pretty down to earth and recognise and appreciate the advantages they have had. They have normal jobs just like their parents: council worker, builder, police officer, IT, business, nurse, doctor.
Frankly it's a small per cent of the population and im always surprised how angry people get.