Epsom College tragedy

[Bambala]

I was horrified to read the story about the headteacher and family dying this morning, this poor family and I can't stop thinking about how the children at school must feel learning about this tragedy. I am sure the staff there are being brilliant at supporting them. I remember hearing that my old headteacher had died after I left school and even then being really shocked and upset.

Some of the comments here are unbelievable. Domestic abuse is a kind of mental conditioning done in an intimate relationship and with a child involved it presents particular issues.

The mistake is to imagine it does not happen to all women. It does. In all walks of life and economic circumstance.

While the GDST suggest empowerment it is also markedly conservative as is Epsom College. These are places that expect certain behaviour and status. Being unmarried with children is not one of them. Attitudes to female empowerment can be very limited by social prejudice

@Oaktree55 , are you aware that abusive men often target intelligent, successful, assertive women?

There is a certain type of abusive or controlling man that is attracted to women who possess the qualities that he himself lacks but covets. When being around such a woman doesn't magically fix his psychological inadequacies for him, he retaliates by trying to destroy her confidence and self-esteem so that he no longer feels inferior to her.

To a controlling man, an assertive woman isn't a deterrent, she is a challenge.

Oh ffs of course it happens across all sections of Society my point is someone who is spending most days teaching about it, listening to outside speakers etc etc is more likely to find a way out sooner. Obviously not impossible she was living the home life she spent hours warning and educating girls about but probably less likely!

Well, the fact her husband murdered her with a gun.

Well said. This is something a woman needs to know. There are psychological markers for such men and they need to be discussed more often.

Have a good evening everyone, content with your assertions you are all correct despite knowing nothing except brief details you’ve gleaned on line! I can’t be arsed.

I specifically asked if there was evidence - I'm not in any way trying to defend this murderer but the whole thread is riddled with assumptions, leaps and down right "made up shit".

Even when told that he had reported her for assault some years ago, posters are making up their own shit mind about what "really" happened

The whole thing is horrific enough without people including works of utter fiction to satisfy their own pent up hatred

That's evidence of murder, not of long standing domestic abuse. You are in fact besmirching her strength and character by making such accusations

Well, Rik, most men who murder their partners and children are also domestic abusers. So you will have to accept that.

my point is someone who is spending most days teaching about it, listening to outside speakers etc etc is more likely to find a way out sooner. Obviously not impossible she was living the home life she spent hours warning and educating girls about but probably less likely!

I'm sorry, @Oaktree55 , but that is an incredibly naive viewpoint.

It's also a potentially damaging one. Assuming that a woman has the knowledge or means to extricate herself easily from an abusive relationship easily is the first step to blaming her when she doesn't.

Also, the idea that her strength of character could have much to do with managing an abusive or dangerous man with a gun is a victim blaming fantasy.

Women cannot manage or control abusive men. If they try, their strength of character comes a distinct second to a man's physical strength

This.

I haven’t made any assertions about whether there was long-standing abuse in this person’s marriage (and you also added in the long-standing bit just there).

I was responding to your query as to whether there was “a shred of evidence that she was a victim of abuse”.

Yes, her murder.

I haven’t said anywhere that there was long-standing abuse in their home, however this is certainly evidence that there may well have been, and is an instance of abuse in itself.

And being subject to abusive behaviour by a partner does not reflect poorly on the victim. Crass.

This thread is stuffed full of made up bullshit. It really is. There is no evidence that there was any abuse BEFORE THE MURDER. Yes, I've added a bit again because you twisted what I said to say "murder is evidence of abuse". Maybe there was, maybe there wasn't, but you will note the word I used - evidence.

As to her character, in my opinion, people saying "oh, maybe she couldn't stand up to him" or even "she should have been able to stand up with him because of her background" are making assertions about her and her character without any evidence. That is almost textbook "besmirching"

Is there a reason that we can't discuss a hideous double murder without making shit up?

There was a case a while ago where a shitbag man was acquitted of rape or murder, can't remember which, because the woman has a good career so 'couldn't have been subjected to a coercive relationship'.

Feckin judge.

Sorry what? Contending that someone was a victim of da is a besmirching of character? Because only women who are weak are abused?

Rik, the people who are inferring that her social position as a leader could have meant she could have dealt with this guy are wrong. It is a very male perspective. It assumes equality where there is likely none.

This woman helped and nurtured many children. She has been lauded for that.

If, as seems statistically likely, there was domestic abuse, the fault is firmly on the perpetrator.

If something positive could come from such a terrible case - it would be to highlight that domestic abuse happens to professional women.

The truth is that a professional woman probably has more tools and resources to draw on. But will she have the same lack of strength or concerns as any other woman? Of course. Let's not assume a good career makes for protective shield.

Murder is domestic abuse you bone head.

Also - I haven’t made any ‘accusations’ nor said any of the other things you’ve included in your post.

You sound very confused and incoherent.

“Textbook besmirching”. Right.

Thank you Lex - I agree with what you say and how you said it

Here we go...

Read and weep.

amp.theguardian.com/uk-news/2017/apr/05/cricketer-mustafa-bashir-spared-jail-after-beating-wife-with-bat-faces-sentence-review

"People have said"

People. Not you. People.

Just to chip in: Coercive control happens to men and women and I’d say it’s just altogether wrong to equate staying with lack of strength. There are so many factors at play including financial and legal considerations, the degree of support, the ability to navigate it and still ‘hold things together’. Abusers are often ‘vulnerable’ or unstable themselves in some way and people also stay out of misplaced concern for that person, believing they can get them support, fix things, etc.

“You are in fact besmirching her strength and character by making such accusations”

👆Your post quoting me just now. It’s pretty hard work responding to you Rik when you can’t keep up with what you’ve said from post to post.