Epsom College tragedy

[Bambala]

I was horrified to read the story about the headteacher and family dying this morning, this poor family and I can't stop thinking about how the children at school must feel learning about this tragedy. I am sure the staff there are being brilliant at supporting them. I remember hearing that my old headteacher had died after I left school and even then being really shocked and upset.

I wasn't saying he shot from a distance I was making a point about how comparatively easy it is to kill people with a gun compared to a knife. In response to someone saying without guns people would just use knives.

Oh leave it to the misogynistic police you mean? Or those professionals who grant gun licenses? Oh deary me. Women know your place.

It would be a positive if this case means that domestic abuse of middle class professional women is taken more seriously (not least by family courts).

She was an experienced teacher and Head (previously of an all girls school), she’d literally spend every working moment with issues such as domestic violence and female empowerment at the forefront of her working day. This is why I’m not convinced he had long standing abuse issues. Obviously not impossible but she’d be living a very different life to the one she would have sold if so.

⬆️. Da Fuk?

@Ndd135632 I was thinking more of the safeguarding team around the school, the coroner and the psychologist she calls. I assume she'll get evidence- you know, actual facts- and they will then investigate the circumstances.

There may be lessons about gun licensing. There may be lessons on guns in school.

It's likely that regardless of the above, there will be the usual explanations that enrage us all.

The fact is- unless you have access to information we don't- you can't really study anything.

We need better refuges, better support for men's mental health, better understanding of the pattern of men's behaviour and how it escalates.

And better publicity on all of it, so we recognise when we're getting into trouble.

It is possible she wasn’t the victim she’s implicated to be if we assume he were abusive. Perhaps he really did lose it fairly unexpectedly for whatever reason. I for one wouldn’t want to be painted as a longstanding victim if it weren’t the case. As I said before all comments are conjecture including mine. No one knows as yet what happened.

Realistically, nobody will ever know if he had a psychotic break or was an abuser or anything, will they. The only people who could know are the family and they are all dead. A senseless tragedy that will never be explained. And I agree that it would have been harder and less likely to end the way it did without access to a gun.

I'm not disputing it. I'm questioning its relevancy.

Because sadly, there have been many such cases where the murder weapon has been a knife. And I do not see availablility of a particular weapon being a key factor in this crime

What? The majority of this thread is painting her as a victim of abuse. No one knows that. Perhaps she would have been out the door at first sign of abusive behaviour that’s certainly the message she would have instilled at a GDST school where she was a previous Head!

I really question why a gun was allowed in the house, in the grounds of a school. That should not have been allowed. It’s a boarding school and other children were around if he’d decided extend his rampage.

No, Oaktree55, in my (personal) experience, you don't live "a very different life" when you are a woman living in an abusive relationship.

You try desperately to live a life that looks as normal and happy and successful as possible to external observers, so that other people don't suspect. Because being in that situation brings a deep sense of shame - shame that you ended up there, shame that you can't "fix" it, shame that you can't get yourself out of it as easily as other people might expect you to, shame that others will judge you.

As an intelligent, educated, professional woman that shame is even more acute because of people like Oaktree55 who consider that you're supposed to be too clever, or too strong or too clued-up to let it happen to you.

Thank you. I am literally agog at @Oaktree55 last couple of posts.

Is there a shred of evidence that she was a victim of abuse?

Indeed if he was as abusive as now we can all see, then she would be desperately putting a face on to the outside world. She has a 7 year old daughter who had moved schools. Her husband was clearly on the edge. She had a very demanding new job. It’s not as easy as walking out the door a the first sign of abuse. Life really isn’t that simple. Holy moly.

Well he killed her the other day. Not sure that would have come out of the blue.

@Awiltu so true, I tried so hard to cover up/ compensate for his controlling behaviours and bad moods and Financial abuse. I did feel shame, and would have felt more shame if people knew what I was putting up with.
I only told people when I knew i was escaping.

One study found that of women who were murdered by their partner, 60% had experienced prior violence.

People rarely go from zero to murder with nothing in between.

Apart from being so terrified of her husband she called a relative for help in the middle of the night, and then being murdered?

Coercive control and domestic abuse are a common factor in situations of male-perpetrated family annihilation.

But... I'm sure we'll find out more in time.

I feel desperately sorry for her (or perhaps, though les likely him) that their privacy they worked hard to maintain, is going to be blasted out of the water.

I can't imagine how awful it would be for your public face to be torn aside like this. So invasive.

That's not a criticism- just a lament for them and their family and friends.

X-post with Mirabai

Thank you @Awiltu , you've explained it perfectly. My own experience too.

No, Oaktree55, in my (personal) experience, you don't live "a very different life" when you are a woman living in an abusive relationship.

You try desperately to live a life that looks as normal and happy and successful as possible to external observers, so that other people don't suspect. Because being in that situation brings a deep sense of shame - shame that you ended up there, shame that you can't "fix" it, shame that you can't get yourself out of it as easily as other people might expect you to, shame that others will judge you.

As an intelligent, educated, professional woman that shame is even more acute because of people like Oaktree55 who consider that you're supposed to be too clever, or too strong or too clued-up to let it happen to you.

Psychotic episode, mental health, whatever it may be; there is always a way out. He could have left. He could have done himself (still tragic but a much better outcome in my opinion).

I actually think he may have stopped Emma & Lottie from running out that house because at any sign of danger, your body goes into fight or flight mode and if she couldn’t fight, she would’ve tried to flee and she wouldn’t have left Lottie behind. It’s all so so sad.

@Ndd135632 oh get over yourselves 🙄. My point’s valid I have children at a GDST School literally every living moment is female empowerment and assertiveness. Some of these posts are mental the assumptions that are being made! She may very well not want to be labelled as a long suffering victim and we have no idea if she was or not! People do occasionally snap without obvious warning.

@illtakeit that’s not how psychotic episodes work in my experience. People can often think objects are talking to them instructing them etc etc. Putting a rational take on severe mental illness doesn’t really work.