Is school pointless?

[idkkkk]

I want to know what the ladies on this board think about schools. Considering that 1 in 2 Brits don't know basic arithmetic, or grammar, and a lot of the things learnt in school go in one ear and out the other. Yet we are "educated" for 10-15 years on these topics.

Couple that with bullying, and exposure to all sorts of very objectionable and destructive things, is school really what we make it out to be? Are our assumptions about education even valid? Is teaching a teen highly abstract ideas that were conceived by people 2-3 times their age a sensible thing to do?

Look at Afghanistan right now....

That's all I need to say.

@Shelddd

Look at Afghanistan right now....

That's all I need to say.

Okay, looking .... so what am I looking for exactly?

Is teaching a teen highly abstract ideas that were conceived by people 2-3 times their age a sensible thing to do?

Hell yes.

Or else you are condemning each generation to restart from scratch.

What sort of things do you think should be dropped from the school curriculum?

And of course school is not compulsory, though every child must be educated. What are your views on home ed? And the more alternative end of private schooling ?

Okay, looking .... so what am I looking for exactly?

Well,given that you started this thread about abandoning schools, it's pretty obvious that you look at what happens when schooling becomes unavailable for swathes of the population

Educated societies are healthier, wealthier and happier. Before people can play concepts they need to understand where the concepts fit in and what they are - structure in knowledge then innovation.

Education is needed it also needs a shake up but I don't want a bunch of idiots in charge when I'm old and can't run away from it all

Ahh....I don't want a bunch of UNEDUCATED idiots in charge then

1 in 2 Brits don’t know basic grammar or arithmetic? Where did you get that from?

You’re assuming that everyone in Britain received an equivalent education. Owing to inequality, especially in this country, they didn’t.

1 in 2 Brits don't know basic arithmetic or grammar? God knows that education isn't highly valued among a lot of people in this country, but I find that statistic quite hard to believe.
Do you honestly think this country would be better off if no efforts were made to teach children maths, grammar, literature, geography, history, physics, chemistry, biology...?

There's a great many people I've met for whom, to be honest, secondary education was pretty useless. They've retained very little at all and have no appreciation for what they have learned. But, in the vast majority of cases, the main problem has not been the schools they went to, it's been feckless parents taking no interest in their children's education and perpetuating a culture of wilful ignorance.
There's only so much you can expect from schools.

@AnotherNewt

Is teaching a teen highly abstract ideas that were conceived by people 2-3 times their age a sensible thing to do?

Hell yes.

Or else you are condemning each generation to restart from scratch.

What sort of things do you think should be dropped from the school curriculum?

And of course school is not compulsory, though every child must be educated. What are your views on home ed? And the more alternative end of private schooling ?

But 1 in 2 brits doesn't even know the basic ideas, so how does that follow through ? It's pointless because they will most likely forget it in any case. It's not an all in or all out issue. The point is these ideas should be left till they are older. I think kids should be taught the basics, reading, writing, arthmatic etc, and focus should be on hands on knowledge and given the freedom to dabble in things until they find something they enjoy. A problem solving approach should be taken rather than being spoonfed.

As they get older and have some experience under their belt, then the focus should move to more abstract ideas. The truth is I don't expect a 18 y/o to appreciate the beauty of say differential calculus, it's just not their yet. But more importantly, because they are not practically using it, they will almost certainly forget, so it's a waste of time in the end.

For the naysayers, here you go:
www.independent.co.uk/news/education/education-news/almost-50-cent-adults-can-t-do-basic-maths-means-half-7469119.html

Where is the evidence for your statistic please?

There are educational inequalities across this country but to state that 50% of the population basically can’t read or write is insane. I’ve taught English for more than 10 years in a variety of areas. I’ve never come across that many students struggling to that extent.

And also - you’ve misused ‘their’ (should be there) in your post at 20:16. Which side of the population do you count yourself in?

@DressedUpAtAnIvy

You’re assuming that everyone in Britain received an equivalent education. Owing to inequality, especially in this country, they didn’t.

But it's more than just inequality though? some kids are ready for it, others are being bullied, some have rubbish teachers, some have mental health issues, family issues and so on. It's a vast and varied picture.

@DenbyChina

Where is the evidence for your statistic please?

There are educational inequalities across this country but to state that 50% of the population basically can’t read or write is insane. I’ve taught English for more than 10 years in a variety of areas. I’ve never come across that many students struggling to that extent.

And also - you’ve misused ‘their’ (should be there) in your post at 20:16. Which side of the population do you count yourself in?

And also - you’ve misused ‘their’ (should be there) in your post at 20:16. Which side of the population do you count yourself in? Obviously the 50%. I'm talking adults, not children.

Freedom to "dabble in things"?

What,for example?

The irony of the grammar and basic errors in your posts.... and ask for asking what to look for in Afghanistan, well, maybe get yourself to some evening classes in current affairs.

How on earth do you think only teaching the very basics and some 'hands-on' knowledge (define hands-on) is going to help?

You might want to see what “expected level for 11 year olds” is these days. Much higher than when I was at school. So naturally fewer people who are adults now will reach that level.
Saying primary level implies really basic add and subtract. It’s much, much more than that these days.

focus should be on hands on knowledge and given the freedom to dabble in things until they find something they enjoy

That'll be FIFA then.

@pigcon1

Educated societies are healthier, wealthier and happier. Before people can play concepts they need to understand where the concepts fit in and what they are - structure in knowledge then innovation.

define health, and happiness. The WEF definitions are based around the GDP which is ludicrous. We have an obesity issue, addictions (sex, drugs, alcohol), and have you seen the levels of anxiety and depression as of late? The picture is more complex than educated or not.

@TheCloudBotherer

1 in 2 Brits don't know basic arithmetic or grammar? God knows that education isn't highly valued among a lot of people in this country, but I find that statistic quite hard to believe. Do you honestly think this country would be better off if no efforts were made to teach children maths, grammar, literature, geography, history, physics, chemistry, biology...?

There's a great many people I've met for whom, to be honest, secondary education was pretty useless. They've retained very little at all and have no appreciation for what they have learned. But, in the vast majority of cases, the main problem has not been the schools they went to, it's been feckless parents taking no interest in their children's education and perpetuating a culture of wilful ignorance.
There's only so much you can expect from schools.

What's with the hyperbole ? no one is saying stop teaching kids full stop, but that maybe the model we have adopted is not very effective. It makes sense since a lot of the knowledge is forgotten because there is no use for it as they age.

@MyCatDribbles

1 in 2 Brits don’t know basic grammar or arithmetic? Where did you get that from?

By 50% of responders to the trhead swallowing those claims whole?

This is the original document the statistic comes from: www.nationalnumeracy.org.uk/sites/default/files/documents/nn124_essentials_numeracyreport_for_web.pdf

There is no actual research conducted, it is instead ‘thought’ by the government. Critical thinking skills clearly need some serious engagement here. This is the same government who thinks that Covid isn’t spread in schools, that there is no petrol issue and that wasting £32 billion of the tax payers money is acceptable.

It makes sense since a lot of the knowledge is forgotten because there is no use for it as they age.

So you have a utilitarian view of education? If it's not directly and immediately useful it shouldn't be taught?

Educated societies are healthier, wealthier and happier.

This is what I came in to say.

If school is a bad idea then who is teaching children and young people?
Where does further and higher education fit in?

@RandomDent

You might want to see what “expected level for 11 year olds” is these days. Much higher than when I was at school. So naturally fewer people who are adults now will reach that level. Saying primary level implies really basic add and subtract. It’s much, much more than that these days.

This isn't an issue of "more knowledge", it's a case of kids being taught things that they have no material need for. It's not like they are design engines so that their is an actual need to use physics or chemistry or math. If you don't use it, naturally, you lose it, regardless of how much you leanrt. Surely, that's common sense and all of you must understand that, no?