Is school pointless?

[idkkkk]

I want to know what the ladies on this board think about schools. Considering that 1 in 2 Brits don't know basic arithmetic, or grammar, and a lot of the things learnt in school go in one ear and out the other. Yet we are "educated" for 10-15 years on these topics.

Couple that with bullying, and exposure to all sorts of very objectionable and destructive things, is school really what we make it out to be? Are our assumptions about education even valid? Is teaching a teen highly abstract ideas that were conceived by people 2-3 times their age a sensible thing to do?

@Elisheva

Give them the net, not the fish. Instill critical thinking, logic, reason, philosophy, and curiosity.

I work across a number of schools and this is precisely what all of them aim to do. You seem to believe that your one experience of one school can be generalised across the whole of education. Just because you didn’t succeed at school doesn’t mean that education is at fault.

Define your terms. What do those terms mean to you and how to your enact them ?

Judging by the panic buying & some of the threads around lockdown eg bread & milk are not essentials, neighbour running inside house when we go into garden, etc I would say something has/is clearly going wrong.

@noblegiraffe

I have also discovered that almost everyone I know personally is hideous at math.I have also discovered that almost everyone I know personally is hideous at math.

Are you American?

Fortunately not, but thanks for further cementing my point.

Fortunately not, but thanks for further cementing my point.

What point? You said 'math' which is American. If you were American then discussing your education background on a UK-based site would be a bit pointless, so it needed clarification.

@noblegiraffe

focus should be on hands on knowledge and given the freedom to dabble in things until they find something they enjoy

That'll be FIFA then.

And staying up late, Pushing boundaries etc Kids want to "dabble" in all sorts usually the wrong kind of sorts

Choixx: Some good old 1960s/1970s style Corporal Punishment would have stop the stupid people during lockdown...

Why do you keep going on about strawmen?

You know that educators in school would love to do individualised learning? Tell me how to do that when I'm alone in a class of 32 5 year olds.

The assumption that you want to improve maths and literacy is based on the article that you have provided to support your argument. If this isn’t what you have issue with then I’m unclear as to how it supports your argument, what your objective is by changing the current structure or what it is you think can be improved by your suggestion (apparently not numeracy or literacy which is what the article discusses)?
I don’t necessarily think an element of child led education and freedom would be a bad thing from a personal point of view but it would need to be researched, evidenced and monitored for it to be adopted. I would personally trust the opinions of teachers who have studied and implemented different pedagogical approaches over my own layman understanding. However I suspect actual teachers get little to no say in these things and instead an education secretary who has never spent a day teaching is able to direct them as to what’s best.

On a serious note obviously educated is highly important but I do think we are not getting it right. I think there is too much pressure from a young age & they should be able to do more creative stuff & sport.

Define your terms. What do those terms mean to you and how to your enact them ?

I don’t understand. Are you suggesting that logic, reason, philosophy, curiosity etc. can have different definitions?

And how many different schools do you actually have experience of?

@noblegiraffe

Are you suggesting a writer learn about unit circles and radians?

You're siloing people a bit here aren't you? Do you think that writers shouldn't write about anything that involves complex maths? Have you read Jurassic Park by Michael Crichton, for example? Or that people who know about radians shouldn't become writers?

You really seem anti-young people getting a broad and balanced curriculum. How do you expect them to become well-rounded and enjoy the philosophical implications of quantum mechanics (or whatever if was) if you have them pigeonholed as writer or nerd?

You make me chuckle. You are pigeonholing them by telling them that they should know who they are by 18.

A writer probably doesn't give a dime about math. However, if he has the eagerness to learn, more power to him. I'm not going to tell him to remain a writer his entire life because that's what he discovered in school and now he has no room for growth.

Young people with never be well rounded, that comes with age. Again, you are assuming it ends at 21, it simply doesn't.

Incidentally, you're not even dealing with my arguments. You are probably a teacher - why don't you expand your horizons ? or did that end with uni too ?

School caters to the average. If you’re well below average you mostly get ignored and told you’re not capable. If you’re well above average you’re just left to be bored. School is good for socialising and keeping kids out of the way so parents can work, and for teaching the basics. But kids certainly don’t need to spend as much time in school as they do.

Our state schools fail a lot of children because many of them are shit. And the shittiest ones tend to be in the areas where the parents don’t give a shit. Those poor kids have for no chance.

@Elisheva

Define your terms. What do those terms mean to you and how to your enact them ?

I don’t understand. Are you suggesting that logic, reason, philosophy, curiosity etc. can have different definitions?

We are clearly not on the same page if that's your response.

A writer probably doesn't give a dime about math

Yet you claim not to be American.

I think teaching about budgeting, credit cards, apr's, compound interest, etc is more useful than trig to the average person.

@choixx

I think teaching about budgeting, credit cards, apr's, compound interest, etc is more useful than trig to the average person.

Yes!!

Choixx: Some good old 1960s/1970s style Corporal Punishment would have stop the stupid people during lockdown...

and the people filling up their jerry cans?

A writer probably doesn't give a dime about math.

You seem quite limited in your reading, for someone self-studying graduate maths.

I'm not going to tell him to remain a writer his entire life because that's what he discovered in school and now he has no room for growth.

But if you had your way you would limit his growth by suggesting that as writing is what he is interested in, that is the only thing he should learn at secondary.

@PickAChew

A writer probably doesn't give a dime about math

Yet you claim not to be American.

Look, most of my online learning is with Americans, the Brits are no where to be found - too busy appeasing ofsted. So I will usually oscillate between maths and math.

@noblegiraffe

A writer probably doesn't give a dime about math.

You seem quite limited in your reading, for someone self-studying graduate maths.

I'm not going to tell him to remain a writer his entire life because that's what he discovered in school and now he has no room for growth.

But if you had your way you would limit his growth by suggesting that as writing is what he is interested in, that is the only thing he should learn at secondary.

But if you had your way you would limit his growth by suggesting that as writing is what he is interested in, that is the only thing he should learn at secondary. No dear, that's you. I am for an individual exploring his/her potential - whatever, whenever. Studying grammer at 45 ? good for you! Studied physics at 52? Great! There is no limit, no age, no restriction when it comes to knowledge. Schools and unis do NOT have a monopoly over knowledge.

There is no limit, no age, no restriction when it comes to knowledge.

So you are know arguing that knowledge for knowledge's sake is good.

However previously you were arguing that knowledge that people don't immediately have a use for is pointless, and would be instantly forgotten.

Are you a fan of knowing things that aren't directly useful or not?

Do you have children @idkkkk?

I'm with you, OP. Completely agree. The basics should always be taught, but I do think that children should be helped to move along a path they have strong interests in. The more interested you are, the more likely you're going to learn.

My ds could not work in a mainstream school setting. He just couldn't take anything in. Once he was moved to a more hands on and active approach school, he whizzed through things. They were more focused on helping him how to learn, rather than what to learn if that makes sense. Obviously the basics are always there, but they used all ways to teach them. Had I of let him stay in mainstream, he would only just be starting on his own path to get to where he is already at now. If he wasn't too deflated after feeling like a failure, that is.

I know when I applied to college years ago, the first thing they wanted to know was how I learned best. Why is that not thought of in schools? You can see it down at nursery aged children, so why are they all lumped with the same kind of teaching in mainstream. It's always the kids with the problem, too. It's never down to how they are taught.

For those who think that a teenager left to their own devices for being taught would just choose video games. I dont believe that would be the case. Sometimes, yes, but other times I think its because they aren't given the help or the tools to explore what they really want to explore.

Basically, if schools worked out how best kids learn, they could lump them into groups and teach them in a way that works for them. Instead, they use sets and lump them into groups based on their knowledge on the subject at hand.

Their knowledge could be increased dramatically, if they were being taught in a way better suited for them. The groups on how they learn would probably be less than the number of sets that are currently needed as well.