Private school: the good, the bad and the ugly!!!

[Goldenspice]

I think I have convinced DH to do private school but we are newbies to being private school parents. I have spent lots of time online looking at options and visited a few and narrowed it down to one I like and local parents seem really, really effusive. But they are all so positive and realistically their have to be some issues right? It makes me a bit spooked that it is so positive because life isn’t perfect is it? The marketing stuff looks impressive but I hope I am savvy enough to know that is what it is - marketing!
So let’s say I have the ‘good’ bit nailed down - small classes, accountability due to fee’s, decent sports provision and nice extra curricular and nice long day.
So what can be the bad and the ugly be? What do I need to watch out for?!

[quote Goldenspice]@trilbydoll
Thanks! Is that something I can ask the school or will they think I am a nightmare? Is there any other way of checking it they take unqualified staff without asking?[/quote]
A lot of DS's teachers have phds. The school website lists all teachers' degrees, e.g. BA from UCL. That is a start. In the beginning, I also used to check teachers out on LinkedIn

School magazines also introduce teachers sometimes.

I haven’t read the whole thread, but from reading some of your posts OP I think I can gather what you’re asking. In terms of good vs bad, that really depends on the school. Where do the children go at 11+ or 13+? Are the school meals good? Is there a good range of extra curricular activity? Do they push or support the children? Is there strong pastoral support?

In terms of social code, I understand where you’re coming from. You might be better looking at a prep that prepares children for public school exams. I might get flamed for this but at my secondary indie I was bullied for being too ‘posh’. It attracted lots of different children and some left with really poor manners. Behaviour and manners was just something the school didn’t focus on. My subsequent friends who went to Public school just know the ‘social code’, which includes not pointing it out to people who don’t know it or struggle to know what to do in certain situations. I.e the people you were with at the Christmas meal behaved badly. On another note if you struggle with confidence then etiquette lessons might help you - not that you’re doing anything ‘wrong’ per se, but it will give you the confidence when in certain situations.

This is a list of things to consider

Quality of the school in question
Location
Parent feedback
Homework level
Pupil comfort and happiness
Provision for after school clubs and activities
Whole school trips and outings
Lesson quality etc
Staff turnover, experience levels
Bullying and crime in general
Fees
First impressions
Sense of humor- this is important
Teamwork

Having experienced a number of different state and private schools I would say that there’s a broad a range of private schools as there are state schools. Ie, some excellent, some good, some rubbish. They don’t all share the same faults and it’s impossible to generalise.

In my experience, first time buyers of private education usually are particularly vulnerable to “facility seduction”… golf courses, climbing walls, swimming pools, state of the art theatres etc. If you attended a shabby state school with none of this stuff, it’s almost impossible not to be swayed by all those facilities. But you must try to resist because all those shiny glass buildings and green turf doesn’t mean it’s a good school or your child will be happy there.

For me the big “tell” was how the head and staff interacted with us (and current pupils) when we visited on open days and on other occasions. At one very famous school the teaching staff looked like it was truly painful to be mingling with parents (any parents). At another equally famous one they looked down at us slightly suspiciously and asked what was our connection to the school. Another one was utterly shambolic in all their comms with us and you could see that dealing with them as a parent would be exasperating. At a fourth school, the staff were tolerating rudeness from children which I thought was really unacceptable.

The one we eventually ended with was one where every teacher (including the head) seemed genuinely welcoming and pleased to meet us, and passionate about what they were doing, and where the relationship between staff and pupils seemed just right - cheerful but mutually respectful.

@Thingaling

Having experienced a number of different state and private schools I would say that there’s a broad a range of private schools as there are state schools. Ie, some excellent, some good, some rubbish. They don’t all share the same faults and it’s impossible to generalise.

In my experience, first time buyers of private education usually are particularly vulnerable to “facility seduction”… golf courses, climbing walls, swimming pools, state of the art theatres etc. If you attended a shabby state school with none of this stuff, it’s almost impossible not to be swayed by all those facilities. But you must try to resist because all those shiny glass buildings and green turf doesn’t mean it’s a good school or your child will be happy there.

For me the big “tell” was how the head and staff interacted with us (and current pupils) when we visited on open days and on other occasions. At one very famous school the teaching staff looked like it was truly painful to be mingling with parents (any parents). At another equally famous one they looked down at us slightly suspiciously and asked what was our connection to the school. Another one was utterly shambolic in all their comms with us and you could see that dealing with them as a parent would be exasperating. At a fourth school, the staff were tolerating rudeness from children which I thought was really unacceptable.

The one we eventually ended with was one where every teacher (including the head) seemed genuinely welcoming and pleased to meet us, and passionate about what they were doing, and where the relationship between staff and pupils seemed just right - cheerful but mutually respectful.

I think this is very accurate indeed.

Unqualified teachers

Risk of children becoming entitled brats

Contribution to on-going rich poor divide and reduced social mobility

Risk of child becoming a Tory

Teachers are NOT unqualified! What gives you that idea? Thirty or forty years ago graduated with very good degrees or post grad qualifications would be taken on and trained on the job sometimes. That does not happen now. Their level of expertise and knowledge was much better than many trained teachers with poorer degrees.

My daughter went to a lovey prep school. On paper not academically the best in the area but it suited our daughter completely. You need to look at the whole picture. The parents mixed bag of rich and like us just making it! I loved the fact that second hand uniform was what everyone did! She went onto a local secondary state school and the transition was easy. We where lucky though we had a good state school but was faith based so not a lot of the children would have got in.
Across her private primary school friends come GCSE results there wasn’t much difference between the private and state. I exclude the grammar children as they all did amazing!
Three of the parents took their children out of different private schools to state as they where unhappy with bullying. But I do think that can happen anywhere. One also moved to 3 separate private schools to find the right fit!
Go visit them, like others have said wander past at school finishing time. If possible try to do a visit during the day - it’s a better experience I feel.

[quote Goldenspice]@Terryscombover
Made me laugh, but I am not a stay at homer though I will be working my ass off for those cute uniforms![/quote]
This is an easy decision then surely - just pick whichever school has the cutest uniform!

Being at private school doesn't teach children how to cut cheese by itself. Or it might, but it's just the tip of the iceberg (or cheese ). Everyone I know whose children are aware of things like how to cut cheese, and when to pull crackers at Christmas etc etc etc knows these things from their parents and home environment because it has been ingrained from birth in a million different tiny ways and it's as natural as breathing to them.

@Washeduponthebeach

Plenty of private schools take on posh people as teachers who do not have a teaching qualification

You're buying membership of a club, not an education

I am amazed by how many schools (including state primaries) fob off prospective parents with excuses about why they can’t visit during the school day. Yes I know COVID, but this was a thing even before COVID. I have learnt the hard way that it is a massive red flag if a school won’t let you see how it really behaves: pupils moving around the building, pupils in the playground, teachers interacting with pupils. Open evenings are a very bad substitute - it’s an artificial set up full of platitudes and if there are any pupils around they will be carefully handpicked individuals doing cello recitals who don’t represent the general population of the school and tell you nothing except that someone else’s kid probably has been having private cello lessons for a while. Zoom open evenings for obvious reasons are even worse.

I know all schools are different but I don’t recognise any of these stereotypes around Private schools from either the one I went to or the one my dc are at
Parents networking - no
Membership of a club - no
Tory - not us
Unqualified teachers - no
Entitled kids - no
Swimming pool - no
Giving Donations- no
Befriending teachers to get good grades - no
Social confidence - one of them yes, one of them no

Teachers absolutely can be taken on with degrees and trained on the job. That was how I trained in 2012, in a state school (it was called the Graduate Teacher Programme; it's now called School Direct). There's a persistent myth on here and society at large that all UK teachers have a teaching qualification. Most do but it's never been a requirement, despite what the government likes to pretend.

@Hoppinggreen
Guessing they aren’t at one of the public schools then? DH and I were both at one of the big hitters and there was a lot of that list going on - still is from what friends with kids there say. Our friend is a deputy at a very famous school and the dinner party stories he entertains us with about the parents would make your skin crawl!!!!

Ds I’d currently as a ‘big hitter) and nope, none of that (even the confidence as DS is like his old mum sadly(. There is an ‘old pupils’ organisation though.

@KittenKong we clearly haven’t heard the stories about your school then from our deputy friend!!

I’ve heard that the PTA is a bit scary (but it didn’t stop one the the members kids ‘leaving’). Nice school, terrible food apparently...

[quote Placido]@Hoppinggreen
Guessing they aren’t at one of the public schools then? DH and I were both at one of the big hitters and there was a lot of that list going on - still is from what friends with kids there say. Our friend is a deputy at a very famous school and the dinner party stories he entertains us with about the parents would make your skin crawl!!!![/quote]
No, just a small non selective in Yorkshire.
I think Public schools are a whole different matter.

Teachers have very good access to training in the state sector - less at a small private. Which I found means that teachers who have been in role a long time can be fairly stale and not awash with new ideas.

[quote WaterBottle123]@Washeduponthebeach

Plenty of private schools take on posh people as teachers who do not have a teaching qualification [/quote]
Well. that had not been my experience. I’ve been closely involved for a long time with the independent sector. In any case teacher training isn’t what makes a good teacher. Very good subject knowledge, a love for your subject and an ability to teach are far more important. I’ve seen some truly dreadful teaching from state school teachers with indifferent degrees and poor subject knowledge.

@Washeduponthebeach
Ditto me in the private sector - particularly in the smaller schools that have dire budgets, rubbish training programmes to keep teachers up to date, and a proportion of their staff who think it will be an easy life with small classes.
When you see a top state teacher teaching a large class brilliantly it’s incredibly inspiring, they are at the top do their game.

@WaterBottle123

You're buying membership of a club, not an education

The good: doesn’t foster bigotry , good work ethic, independence (if boarding), encourages/supports a wide range of interests and extra curricular activities , teachers have more time to be able to support children (smaller class sizes).

The bad: the expense, that you are knowingly buying your child a leg up in life and that’s not fair

The ugly: no school is perfect and when you pay a lot of money, it’s galling if anything falls short.

It saddens me to see age old stereotypes of rich people in flash cars being snooty. Probably fair 100 years ago but in today’s world, this is not a reflection on the families deciding to pay for an independent education or more and more, those at these schools via a charitable bursary. 10% of the children at my dc’s school are in receipt of financial assurance anything up to 100% - and I couldn’t pick out those that are because (a) I don’t care (b) the dc don’t care and (c) I’m a parent so why would I even know as I’m not the one at school and I don’t hang out with any parents (mostly because I work and have my own life and don’t use schools as a pillar of my own life).

OP, private schools won't teach your children dining etiquette, but they should teach basic manners. So if your colleagues are sniggering at you for small faux pas, that tells me they benefitted very little from any advantages they may have enjoyed, and they are certainly not 'posh.'

@Placido

Teachers have very good access to training in the state sector - less at a small private. Which I found means that teachers who have been in role a long time can be fairly stale and not awash with new ideas.

I'd agree with this, I've noticed it in one tutor who had just retired from teaching at private primary school all her life and was in her 50s. She was really out of date with so many things.

At first it seemed charmingly eccentric and charmingly old fashioned, but after a while it was clear she was simply out of date and her techniques and teaching were too.