Private school: the good, the bad and the ugly!!!

[Goldenspice]

I think I have convinced DH to do private school but we are newbies to being private school parents. I have spent lots of time online looking at options and visited a few and narrowed it down to one I like and local parents seem really, really effusive. But they are all so positive and realistically their have to be some issues right? It makes me a bit spooked that it is so positive because life isn’t perfect is it? The marketing stuff looks impressive but I hope I am savvy enough to know that is what it is - marketing!
So let’s say I have the ‘good’ bit nailed down - small classes, accountability due to fee’s, decent sports provision and nice extra curricular and nice long day.
So what can be the bad and the ugly be? What do I need to watch out for?!

From what I have seen, of friends/ acquaintances with kids at private school, there can be a huge amount of homework, especially at secondary. It just overwhelms the children, especially if they have a long school day and quite a lengthy journey to and from school.

I've heard accounts of children falling asleep over their books; even going to the loo, in the middle of homework, and falling asleep there. I think this is a worry if your child isn't SEN, as such, but just not a high-achieving academic. Test, after test, after exam after another test doesn't always raise their grade from a 4 to a 7, at GCSE; they might therefore, become miserable, and worried about not doing well.

You'll need to ask parents whose own kids go there, as you have(!) sorry, what they think of the competitive drive - if they've experienced this. Maybe not all private schools are super-competitive, though.

I have broken the mould and climbed from working class to middle, i grew up in a one bed tenement with an outside toilet. We moved to a new town and my dad buggered off. My mum struggled as a single parent and we had very little. It gave me the drive to want more...I have moved to London and now live in a 1.5 million home, my sisters all worked and have their own home. It is possible to break the barriers...it took me a few years to stop feeling uncomfortable eating out at expenive restaurants, or being around others who had a different upbringing. I would not want my DC to ever feel uncomfortable, embarrassed in their surroundings. I remember my adult friend being embarrassed in a posh restaurant and not sure what to order. Had to remind her we are paying customers and if you want advice ask them...

Oh and we do crackers after starters, as I expect us all to be sat wearing the hats during the meal

From reading your latest posts I do t know if you'll get what you want from private school.

They won't reach your kids how to slice cheese or pull crackers. It's not finishing school.

You should concentrate on building your children's confidence so that when some prick laughs at them for doing something "wrong" they can just shrug it off.

Yes I know about the nose of the cheese and I went to the local state schools. I agree you may not get that kind of random knowledge from a private primary. Not sure they teach them the etiquette of cheese and which fork to use first.

OP I have just seen your update about neither you nor your husband having SEN so you think your children won't? Wow, just wow. If you really think that the only people with any kind of disability or different needs are those whose parents have those needs then please educate yourself. What an extraordinarily narrow attitude.

Crikey - kids being warned not to reveal their educational background during freshers week? Not in my family's experience. At Russel Group and Oxbridge students can't wait to seek out fellow alumni from independents, and happily tell all and sundry from whence they hail, and look suitably confused when you reveal you went to Bash Street comp. Nope - they're loud and proud!
And maybe that's what you want, OP. In fact I actually rather like your honesty about wanting the uniforms and perceived polish that writing big fat cheques brings.

It bothers you a great deal about these things to do with etiquette. It might be a good idea for you yourself to think if you would like to take some etiquette classes, elocution, or whatever, because it's no big deal, and I'm sure such training exists, and even be fun.

You would feel positive and empowered. I don't like to see you being so unsure of yourself. Believe that this class stuff is all superficial nonsense in this age we live in, and you can base your style on any code you want and learn the archaic rules.

But, I don't think it will make you happy to be superficial and bothered about status.

Personally, I don't aspire to be posh, but if you do - feel encouraged that you, me, anyone can learn all this nonsense that bothers us, about which knife to use, etc. Lots of posters on Mumsnet have been hard up, then have become rich. Don't think you are always going to be the one who doesn't know the social rules of the group's you want to feel part off. Just learn it.

I don't like to see you feeling as if there is nothing you can do about the situation, but wait to see if you'll be accepted - or to feel that you are not in control.

Try to take ownership of social polishing, but do it for yourself because you would like to talk like upper middle class people. Accept it is your choice because you like it, not because you ought to make yourself different to what you are.

This thread has gone a bit weird.

@Hoppinggreen
I guess it is different in each school.Ours lacks real diversity. It might be diff color or ethnic, but they are not bringing in their cultural background but tend to gravitate to "being posh british".

I went to an int'l private school in an arab country with 150 nationality kids and we had way more emphasis on each diff country's culture and showing it on Unicef day, heritage day and some other all school/all day activities. It was really fun.
Even the state primaries had more multi-cultural show and tell days.

My dc go to an international school, so it is really diverse.
It is one of the things l like most about it.
But it does mean there isn't one socially correct way of doing things like eating.

Think I will sign off now I seem to have put some people’s backs up by just being me! Thanks to all those posters who could kind-of get my silly insecurities even if they don’t share them, I hope I meet you on our next adventure you are lovely. Sorry to those who just don’t get how I feel -( maybe a few need to have a check of their privilege and pop themselves in my shoes for an hour.) And to the poster about SEN thanks for opening my eyes, I will learn more so that I can understand any issues we might face and try and understand other people’s journey. Bye!

This may have only been my dd's private school, but team sport is only for the elite. Everybody who was in any sport's team also had to do it outside school, and had to be good before they were allowed to compete - not necessarily against other schools - even against each other. We used to say that the school was rubbish at teaching any sport whatsoever- they could only teach people who could already play. Any child who wanted to learn a sport they had never played before had to sort it out themselves. Parents complained a lot - nothing ever changed.

@Goldenspice it isn’t about checking our privilege. I was educated at a state school.

If people here think you are trolling, imagine how you and your children may be coming across. That’s what you have to consider, state or private.

If your DC has issues with behaviour or any learning needs that they can't support they can strongly invite you to leave.

Some run on very tight financial margins and things like covid can be the end of them.

There are a lot of costs on top of the fees eg expensive uniform, expensive school trips and some extra curricular activities.

@Goldenspice I meant that some of the questions you’re asking don’t seem directly related to choosing a school for your children. So I was wondering.

But on the question of being more confident in certain social situations, I’m sure a lot of us can relate. If you come from a very working-class or poor or first generation immigrant background or whatever and then find yourself in the middle of a totally different group of people, there will be times when you absolutely feel like a fish out of water and you wonder about the new social rules that you seem to have no idea about. I’m speaking from experience and I get why you might want your children’s education to prepare them for things that you yourself weren’t prepared for. That’s fine. I don’t really get your fascination with the uniform but each to their own.

Whatever you decide, my advice for what’s it’s worth, please try and find a school that is a good match for your kids. The uniform has nothing to do with that. As for some of the very specific things you have mentioned, no school would teach that stuff, but I guess if your kids are mixing with ‘posh people’, they might pick up some of it, I have no idea. The approach I have with my kids is to teach them that wherever they go in their lives, it’s a good idea to take stock of your surroundings to get the lie of the land. That starts when they’re young and learn how not to run around in restaurants or how to be respectful when watching a live show, for example. So you carry on learning about those things throughout life and learn how to get on in different environments. In short, I’m not sure it would be a consideration for most people when choosing a school, but I do get what you mean about having confidence and having an awareness of social rules in different situations.

I didn't want my DC to be invisible and I wanted to be able to raise any concerns I had, and for them to be taken seriously.

Seems a bit odd if you're suggesting this only happens at private school. My DC in state secondary are not invisible, I can raise concerns, and have done so and had them taken seriously.

I want them to be posher than me and Dh so they aren’t shy when they meet people.

Poshness is not the same as social confidence. There are plenty of privately educated people who are cripplingly shy, or socially awkward.

The long days can be a downside ime, doing all sports and hobbies with the same people you are in lessons with can be quite intense and leaves DC with nowhere to go when friendships go awry. Better I think to do hobbies outside school, although that does require a certain amount of effort on the part of the parents.

Plus the lack of social diversity. Not talking about ethnic diversity, but your children are very unlikely to meet someone in care, or someone whose parents are on benefits, or who is a young carer, or who will only get one or two GCSEs and go on to be a builder. It makes me laugh when people try to argue that selective schools are more diverse when the whole point of selection is to exclude people. They are much less representative of society and that's a disadvantage imo. (Of course many people are paying precisely so that their children can avoid undesirables like those I just mentioned.)

Our prep has been great with DS1 with SEN.

These are just my personal views…

Bad: some have homework++, reduced exposure to different social groups, ridiculously expensive copious sports kit, endless sports matches

Ugly:competitive parenting (our school is pretty good on this front, but even the few there are are sickening)

[quote TheSunIsStillShining]@Hoppinggreen
I guess it is different in each school.Ours lacks real diversity. It might be diff color or ethnic, but they are not bringing in their cultural background but tend to gravitate to "being posh british".

I went to an int'l private school in an arab country with 150 nationality kids and we had way more emphasis on each diff country's culture and showing it on Unicef day, heritage day and some other all school/all day activities. It was really fun.
Even the state primaries had more multi-cultural show and tell days.[/quote]
It is certainly different at each school I agree.
My DCs Private Secondary is much more diverse than their State Primary was in terms of ethnicity and the kids do keep in touch with their background as well largely.
Not the same as an international school though I’m sure

@Goldenspice I also went to state. Dp and my kids go to private

@Hoppinggreen you raise an interesting point. Do children who are asked to leave a private school for misdemeanours have their information shared with a private school? My friend’s son was moved from a state school after he dealt drugs and the private school he went to didn’t seem to know - the police weren’t involved (although it was threatened at one point) as it was such a small amount but at the state school he was going to be in isolation for months, and when the parents moved him it was just business as usual. Nice for the boy as teens make mistakes as we all know but less nice for the unaware teachers and parents if he is up to his old tricks at the new school.

Placido, our observation was that private school work hard to place pupils who may need to move for whatever reason. This includes kids who are unhappy socially or academically, and those who may have been caught up in drugs etc. For example when there is a druggie clique that a school is keen to break up, members, though perhaps not leaders, will be supported into finding somewhere else. With an expectation that the first school will return the favour one day. Many parents are not unhappy to have an unhealthy friendship group broken up even if it means their child having to move to a new environment. Though thinking about it, the same may not apply where boarding is not an option and out of school friendships continue.

We also observed girls in West London private schools switching with school support if they were unhappy or stuggling academically.

We've had a positive experience with a private prep. Our DD was diagnosed with SEN in year 3 and they've been very good at supporting her. I am a teacher and when I look at Ofsted and ISI reports it's obvious that the hollowing out of SEN support in state has driven parents with money to particular private schools (not all of them and not this one - but it speaks well I think that they can do it when required).

We buy second hand uniform, not because we can't afford new but because there is no universe where I'm paying £100 odd for a blazer for a child. The headmistress has got a hat fetish for sure.

I have liked the great sport, music, wraparound and holiday provision. All these things are available locally outside school, but it saves a heck of a lot of trouble for working parents. There is no judgement of working mums.

There are a few competitive parents, parking manners are poor and there is at least one parent who picks up in a gull wing Tesla. Generally I don't have any sense of not fitting in socially, but then we didn't pick the school for social reasons.

Some Parents befriending teachers having them over for drinks and meals etc.... extra donations to the school to get their children special treatment from staff and rewards.

@Sunshine12098

Some Parents befriending teachers having them over for drinks and meals etc.... extra donations to the school to get their children special treatment from staff and rewards.

Wish I had known about this, I might have given it a go

The children of parents who make big donations also tend to be put ahead for competitions and sports. Too often, money talks at private schools.
Many private school teachers don’t have conventional teaching qualifications, but are good at teaching their subject to better behaved and highly motivated students.
Private schools will usually push your children to your greatest potential. They expect more homework, especially at secondary, but this leads to greater subject mastery.
As for cultural diversity, here are some things I would rather my children didn’t know about.