Music practice - if your kids do it, how do you get them to do it, if they don't, why don't you make them?

[tortoiseSHELL]

As a piano teacher I am CONSTANLY amazed at the money parents pay for piano lessons, and then don't make their children practise - thus wasting the money imo! Can't think why this is. I always thought it must be impossible to actually get them to practise, but now ds1 is doing violin and piano, I realise it isn't, you just make them do it.

So - if your children learn instruments, how much practice do you insist that they do each day, what is your method of achieving this, and if they don't practise, why don't you make them? And do you mind wasting all that money on lessons?

Thank you! This is to help me as a piano teacher, not as a parent, as atm ds1 does his practice with no problem, I need schemes for my pupils' parents! I have suggested sticker charts, rewards charts, having a set time each day, doing 5 mins 3 times a day, doing 15mins in one go...am out of ideas!

Also if he begins to struggle a bit with the pieces he is doing, I bring out an easier book, or we go and buy a new one; then I encourage him to do lots more playing 'for fun' alongside his hard-slog practice.

The right material is important too. Ds1 made amazing progress with the piano, and had only been learning 6 months when the teacher told us to get the Grade 1 pieces and they started looking at those. DS1 just hated the pieces, he really couldn't stand them. And for a few weeks practice became a battle and he started hating the piano.

I just didn't see the point in pushing the exams. As Dumbledoresgirl says for some children they are a great motivating factor, but he doesn't need that, as he enjoys playing anyway.

So I had a chat with his teacher, who was happy to just forget about exams completely and just continue playing. (Then maybe when he is older he will want to do the exams, and we can re-visit them again if so. He can go in at any level, he could start at Grade 3 or 4 if that seems appropriate.) That was a year ago, and he's still enjoying playing now and making great progress.
He even enjoys playing scales .. strange child?!

if they don't want to do it, they stop. I think that about all their leisure activities. These are things they should enjoy.

I agree Roisin, that some things are negotiable and some non-negotiable, but DS2 still doesn't always get that concept, and what is supposed to be essentially a pleasure, as well as a new skill, wasn't a pleasure at all.

You choose your battles as they say.

Force my boys to practice by a combination of bribery and it just being a non negotiable part of the routine. (No TV or computer until homework and practice is done.)

Having said that - they don't enjoy it and will play each piece as fast as possible to get it over with. It's a struggle and constant nag to get a decent effort from either of them.

Why do I waste the money?

because A) I feel a basic level of musical education is a need for all. I don't want them to be concert pianists but just to have a clue about reading music, what it feels like to play etc.
B) I believe it is good for brain development in other areas. It stretches parts of the brain that would otherwise be vegetating.
C)I nurse a vain hope that both my boys will turn out to be musical and may start enjoying it once they get the hang of it.
D) What if they want to be pop stars?

you see, shimmy, I don't think I agree with any of that.

I agree with you Pointydog.
Music lessons cost a lot of money, but they do it for their pleasure. As soon as he stops enjoying it, and/or won't practice (for more than just a brief phase) we will stop the lessons.

seriously though, I do think that sometimes it is good for kids (and adults) to do things which are hard and difficult to start with. That's where our greatest achievements come from.

My dss don't enjoy practice but I don't think I have ever seen ds1 more proud of himself than when he got a really good mark in his Grade 1 or playing in the school concert. If you'd asked him afterwards he would have said it had been worth the effort. If you'd asked him before he would have said it was torture.

There's not a lot that children do these days that is really hard work and takes a lot of practice. Even school work is all fun fun fun (not knocking that). I do think that children are allowed to give up so much just because it gets tough. If there is a little compulson along the way they can achieve things they would never have dreamt they would be able to do.

I tell my DD that she should do 5 minutes practice each day. If she does it without being asked and does it well, I usually reward her. If she doesn't do it or moans about it we chat about why she chose to do her instrument. If she wants to stop she will stop. If she enjoys it, she practices.

ah no, wasn't suggesting that it's all parents that want that for their children, but I do know of people who made their children have lessons because they stopped having lessons themselves and regretted it iykwim.

I also think that sometimes there's an element of wanting to play because they like music, but not realizing the boring bits that are involved ie scales and finger exercises. And especially an instrument like the violin, it starts of really, really bad before it gets any good and that can be very frustrating. (for all involved! ).

I think also that if the style of teaching is wrong for that child they may not be motivated to practice. I had piano lessons for two years, but in the second year my teacher was a ghastly woman who said I couldn't do exams because she didn't think it was right. I completely lost my motivation and refused to practice and didn't even turn up for my lessons. This was in school time and I wasn't actually allowed to quit my lessons without written permission from my parents, however in my case the head of the music department made an exception .

Had I had the right kind of teacher I have no doubt that I would have progressed much further examwise. I am lucky in that I have a natural talent and went on to teach myself, and although I don't read music I do play by ear and can do so on what I believe to be a semi professional level. But not everyone has that ability so if the teaching/the circumstances/even the music is wrong then the motivation to practice and learn can be lost.

My DD has been having flute lessons for a year and last week I was thrilled because I heard notes recognisably Annies Song coming from the other room... right notes, right order, absolutely wrong timing....and thats the last time I heard her practice. She was going to practice on saturday but dropped the main section of the flute straight onto her toe and made it bleed ....

Oh dear.

Our trouble is that I'm darned if I know when to fit it in - she does 2 afterschool clubs and swimming and has homework so wheres the time for mooching?

I know full well that practice is essential but how to get her to do it eludes me!

When I was a child learnign violin we had a book like a homework book in which we were meant to record how many minutes per day we practiced. I'm sorry to say I faked the numbers . Maybe I'll try that on DD.

This term we have started a new chart whereby if dcs don't do their practice before school every day they lose their pocket money. It's working so far

Thanks everyone - really interesting views! I have some pupils who practise loads, and others where the parents just week after week say 'they haven't done much this week' and honestly the lessons are SUCH hard work - for me and them - it's so hard to make it interesting when you're just covering stuff you did weeks ago. And I take the point about playing stuff they know, but they need some semblance of technique/reading skills to do that and some parents just seem to think that once the lesson has happened, that's it for the week. Drives me mad!

What I find hard to understand is the concept that a parent can't make their child do it - I just tell ds1 to do it, and it's non-negotiable. Same when I was little - right from the start (age 7) I was doing 30 mins piano, 30 mins flute every day. Ds1 is just turned 6, he does 15-20 mins each for violin and piano.

The thing is that when they put in the work, they make so much more progress, and then they enjoy it more.

Like I said, I can make him do it, it was non-negotiable, but imvho, it wasn't worth the strops.

This wasn't a short-term thing.

We often have similar with homework, which is also non-negotiable, and that takes precedence over anything else.

That sounds reasonable - it's a balance. THe ones who are difficult to comprehend are the ones who week after week, year after year do NO practice!

Well, if I was paying for private lessons (as opposed to school lessons) then I would have a rethink about him continuing the lessons without practising.

You're lucky with your kids Tortoiseshell! Some whinge and procrastinate so long about their homework which absolutely has to be done that there isn't time or energy for the music practice.

Its probably partly a genetic thing - not just innate musical ability but also the will to practice which is the combination needed to succeed with an instrument. Seems to run in your family!

Anyhow - luckily we can afford it and DDs lessons are during school hours so we are happy for her to continue as long as she wants.

I do think that natural ability plays a huge part. Music was always such an effort for me, I had to read the music, I couldn't pick anything up by ear, it was such a slog.

I've seen other people around me with some sort of ability to listen to a tune, pick it up, know the sounds their instrument will make. And it doesn't seem dependent at all on how long they have played the instrument.

My dc do not take after me on the music front.

This is a huge thread so I don't have time to read it all, but Tortoiseshell it can help if the teacher provides the practice chart. You can buy practice notebooks that have them in, or you can design your own, with all the days of the week and space for the parent to sign. Then you can sign it (as the teacher) and praise the child if they've done more practice this week than last.

One good piece of advice to give pupil and parents is that the pupil should aim to do some practice after the lesson on the same day - assuming the lesson isn't last thing at night - while the teaching is fresh in their mind.

my ds is 5, he started the piano a year ago as I wanted him to start enjoying it before he became hooked by sport alone ie football / tennis as we are a sporty but none musical family.
He wa s sometimes reluctant to practise but I have now found the answer. Rightly or wrongly he earns minutes on the xbox 360, upto 30 minutes a day. Basically however long he does quality piano practise he then has that time playing a video game. he's now VERY keen to practise!!
This works for me anyhow!!

Elasticwoman - I do that actually, but it just never gets filled in - the parents just say they didn't have time.

I wondered about trying a more competitive way - having some sort of prize for good practice, but it feels like that should be the parents' job, not mine. Will think some more.

I do think innate ability helps - in that if they are musical they may be more motivated to practise, but I don't think TRUE musicality necessarily shows at this age - pointers can, like pitching notes, good aural skills etc, but a clever mathematical child can get a long way quickly without much music in their soul. That comes out later I think - when they start touching people with their music, and that is what I would call real musicality.

What I found with ds1, just to add, is that he absolutely begged me to let him start piano, and I teach him for that, and I never have any problem with him practising that, he complains more about violin practice, but knows it is a road to nowhere! The violin I decided he would play, the piano he did.

that's interesting, tortoise. You don't think some people just have more musical ability from birth then?

You know how some people listen to songs and can then work it out quickly and start playing it on their instrument? Do you think that is more of an innate musical skill?

I have to remind, but not threaten. If I do make a threat it's to say "oh so you want to give up playing xxx then" and that's enough. They did both choose to play their instruments though, and I think that makes a difference.

Why don't I make him? Because I forget to and so it hasn't been part of the routine, just a random occurrence a couple of times a week.

How often should an 8 year old be doing guitar practice? (I don't really care if he doesn't become Jimi Hendrix, just want him to have some knowledge of playing a musical instrument.)