Music practice - if your kids do it, how do you get them to do it, if they don't, why don't you make them?

[tortoiseSHELL]

As a piano teacher I am CONSTANLY amazed at the money parents pay for piano lessons, and then don't make their children practise - thus wasting the money imo! Can't think why this is. I always thought it must be impossible to actually get them to practise, but now ds1 is doing violin and piano, I realise it isn't, you just make them do it.

So - if your children learn instruments, how much practice do you insist that they do each day, what is your method of achieving this, and if they don't practise, why don't you make them? And do you mind wasting all that money on lessons?

Thank you! This is to help me as a piano teacher, not as a parent, as atm ds1 does his practice with no problem, I need schemes for my pupils' parents! I have suggested sticker charts, rewards charts, having a set time each day, doing 5 mins 3 times a day, doing 15mins in one go...am out of ideas!

Not much help, but I'd say that if the child didn't want to practise, they shouldn't be having the lessons. I learned piano as a kid, and my mother always made it plain to me (in a very laidback way) that if I didn't practise, the lessons would stop. What's the point in forcing kids to do something they have no enthusiasm for?

Don't know what age groups we'e refering to but I'm wondering whether the parents themselves have learnt an instrument/can read music/have any idea what they are supposed to do to structure those 15 minutes? Maybe they don't have a clue how to go about it?

My 10 year old son is learning piano and he does, on average, 10 - 15 minutes practise a day.

He generally does it off his own bat, as he's passing the piano he will stop and play whatever piece he is learning.

Why?

Well I think it's because the parent thinks this will be a good idea, you can learn the piano - because it'll be good for life, and you can also learn the clarinet, because then you can play in the orchestra.

'Oh yes' the child chirrups.

Then they have the lessons, then you realize they aren't particularly good at music AND they're not that interested. Then you INSIST. Then you BRIBE.

Now, it's an issue and a huge BATTLE. And then of course, you consider your battles. Is it going to be homework or music practice that I'm going to fight to the death for.

And then sometimes you just think, gawd wouldn't it be great if you a) were any good at music b) actually wanted to do it c) we had the relationship we used to have.

None of this based on personal experience, oh no.

I used to practise every day, it was a set half hour or maybe 15 minutes, until I was about 13 I suppose (violin) actually I stopped lessons for a year or two at about 10, then went back into them at 13 and did grade 7 straight off, so I was lucky

But before that I really just did it because it was the culture/routine in our house. Mum was a pianist so she encouraged us/was involved, ie she accompanied us or helped us through it, so really we all just mucked in together.

I stopped having the self discipline after I did grade 7 and never did grade 8. I just couldn't make myself do it. I enjoyed playing but couldn't be bothered to put in the work...

Hope that gives another perspective if not actually helpful

Please tell me how you make your ds do it?

My ds1 is learning the piano and I have to nag and nag to get him anywhere near it but it does happen in the end. Ds2 will happily practise the piano but generally refuses to do his guitar practice. Even if I get the guitar out and set up his music books he just refuses!!! I'm not sure what more I can do short of forcing his hands across the thing!

Both of them practise the piano every day, unless they are ill, usually for about 10-15 minutes each but it can be a bit of an ordeal.

Yes I do get annoyed about wasting the money on lessons and I have threatened to cancel the guitar lessons on numerous occasions. The thing is that he makes progress - just not as quickly as he would do if he put a bit of effort into it - so maybe he can't see the point of it.

I have tried various bribes etc but, honestly, if they don't want to do it they won't. None of this is particularly helpful for you, I'm afraid, but I least I got a chance to whinge!

Lol 100x!!

DS1 didn't start until I thought he was old enough to take it seriously (nearly 7), and we were just very clear that practice was non-negotiable from the very beginning.

When he started I insisted on just 5 mins twice a day, but he soon wanted to play for much longer. I did him a little chart and put stickers on when he practiced, but he soon didn't need it.

He's just started learning guitar at school, but in a group of 6 so that pace is not exactly meteoric! So he just does that once a day atm.

TnOgu DS1 and 2 do that. DS1 is much better with his cello practice too. 10 mins a day and he fills in a smiley face on his practice sheet.

Got to get him a decent instrument - he has a school one but it is always going badly out of tune and tonight the bridge flew out.

I would say that if the children aren't practicing, it's probably the parents that want the lessons, ie they're living vicariously through their children.

If the children want to learn the piano, chances are part of the reason for wanting to do so is so they can play more modern songs as well iyswim.

so one suggestion would be perhaps to have the insentive of allowing said child to also learn a part of a modern song (pop song?) if they practice, and perform their current piece well.

that would certainly have worked for me when I had piano lessons as a child as I found the scales and more simple clasical pieces extremely tedius and yet could play fairly complicated pop (elton john) by ear.

Oooh Eleyana. You see if I threatened no more farking piano or clarinet lessons, he'd say 'Deal.'

So it's all my fault. I'm making him do it. I like the fact it's difficult and he has to practice it to be any good. I think it'sgood for the soul. But he doesn't. And he's crap at it.

Now the clarinet is going okay, and he plays in wind band and orchestra.

But the piano?

Is it worth it tortoiseshell? Tell me.

The strange thing with my children is that they asked to learn these instruments and they enjoy their lessons. They don't want to give up - they look forward to their lessons whereas I would very happily not take them anymore!!! I find it odd that they make such a big thing about practising - I suppose they are just lazy.

DS2 plays the cello, through school. He has one joint lesson a week in school, and orchestral practise once a week. He's still at quite a low level, but enjoys the lessons.

His teacher originally asked him to practise 10 minutes a day. We have, however, collectively decided that he should attempt to practise once/twice a week instead because we were having major strops over it.

Yes, I could make him do it, and did do, but it would take longer to get him to do it than he actually practises, and quite frankly the strops outweighed any enjoyment he got.

I discussed the situation with the headteacher and the peripatetic teacher, because I thought maybe someone else should have the opportunity, but both agreed that he should continue.

Oh as well ds2's piano teacher has a very un-PC scheme. He has a complicated system whereby they get points every week. He will assign a number of points to a piece - say 25. If they learn the notes well first week they might get 12 points, then 7 points the next when they've practised more, then the next week if it's at performance standard with dynamics they get the other 6 ... or whatever!

Anyway the teacher then takes these marks and writes out the top ten students and pins it on the board in the hallway for all to see
It also shows last week's position - so they can see who the big movers are.

DS2 is extremely competitive, so he is usually desperate to earn points; and always likes to be top of the chart!

I'd cancelled his lesson last week because we had something else on, and ds2 burst into tears when I broke the news to him

Ahem I struggle to get my children to practice. I have 3 who play instruments - if you can include dd who mangles every note she knows on the recorder (currently about 5).

I keep meaning to start a rule whereby they practice the minute they get home and do nothing else until they have, but somehow that never works either.

I find withholding computer time does the trick mostly, or taking time out from whatever I am doing and standing over them as they practice. I also find accompanying them on the piano makes for a good practice (keeps them going and is a valuable sharing moment) but I appreciate that not all parents can do that.

Oh and having an exam to practice for (in particular knowing the exam date) is a wonderful incentive.

dd1 does maybe 10 minutes piano all in one go, in theory 5 times per week (excluding lesson), in reality it's often more like 3-4 times
We bribe her - if she does 5 days in a week, she gets 1 pound.

TBH it's pretty much my fault if she doesn't do 5 x, she isn't too bad about practising but needs me to remind her and pester her a bit.

The main problem is that she doesn't have that much stuff to practice really. She just goes over everything in her book and does the last few pieces 3 times.

I think a set time would be good really, but it tends to be quite chaotic at home with 3 small children... [feels useless and disorganised]

DS3 is about to start learning the saxaphone.

Am expecting to have no problem with him practising.

And nonononononono, I don't want the lessons wannabe! I did my stint at school ta very muchly!

Now, I would love to learn to play the piano. Wonder if my neighbour would let me practise on hers...

hmmm. When I remember I tell dd1 to practise. I think she should prob do more as occasionally she doesn't do any in a week. But she seems to have a bit of a flair and she does like it a lot and she is progressing.

We have negotiable things - about which dss will argue til the cows come home. and non-negotiable things: homework, chores, instrument practice, bedtimes, etc. And they just get on and accept those things.

I do think temperament for learning and practising and instrument is important too, as well as talent. DS1 does not have a good ear for music - his rhythm is great, but he cannot sing in tune. (He has improved greatly over the last few years though.) But he also doesn't have the temperament for instrument practice - I think; so we've never even gone down that route.

Occasionally there's been an opportunity from school and I've discussed it with him, and explained the expectation of regular practice, and he has declined the lessons.

I want the lessons wannabe. Oh yes. Not ds. Oh no. Ds would like to play on Pokemon Crater. Thank you very much.

I don't think it's for me, wannabe - my main driving force is the fact that music taught at the dds's school is utter, utter shite - TBH I get the feeling they don't do any other than learn a few hymns so she'd never learn about music if she didn't have piano lessons.

ok, have read threD.

Like 100, I had piano lessons as a child and they were just a grinding Chore. I think children should enjoy playing an instrument otherwise what's the point.

Both dds chose to put themselves forward for an instrument. SO it's up to them to carry on with it or not, as I see it.

if they're interested they will practise on their own. (thinking of scary flute teacher)

when dd1 had to practoise a piece for the school show, I remembered to remind her to practise. But it was to do with reminding her, not making her. (We are a forgetful family.) She wanted to do it.

And if they don't want to do it, do we think that they shouldn't?

They certainly shouldn't be doing two instruments fgs should they?