Help-angry with reception teacher

[angrymum]

My ds started school this week.He is 4.5. Today I was talking to him about school and what he had been doing,and he got really upset and said that his name had been put on the " sad sun" whatever that is,because he had gone to the toilet without asking. He couldn't tell me any more details but I am SO angry I feel like I am going to explode.
As I said this is his first week, he has come from a nursery where they just went to the toilet when they wanted to-and I had explained that school was different and that he would have to ask-and more's to the point he hasn't found toilet training the easiest of things to conquer and I'm just relieved that he went to the loo instead of wetting himself.I can't believe he's been punished for this with some sort of public humiliation.
I feel I need to talk to the teacher about this, but not sure how to go about it.My initial reaction to her has been that I don't like her.She is very young and has just finished her newly qualified teacher year, and when I tried to talk to her earlier in the week, in a kind of " has ds been ok?" kind of way she just said, " yes, there's a parents evening next week " in a kind of dismissive, don't bother me way.I don't know whether to try and talk to her on monday or wait till thursday for parents evening.I feel like crying .
Any teachers out there that can advise me? Or more experienced mums? Wouldn't a gentle reminder have been enough??????

If it helps a teeny bit, I was never allwed to visit spain with my family when Franco was in power because my Dad said that Franco was a bastard! So, solidarity sister!

good on your dad

Being only 8 or so myself, I lacked the political nous to realise why we didn't go like all my mates. Adn was pissed off that we went to Tenby every year. Thanks to your story I now feel better about all those rainy holidays

re the sandwhiches I ha a lot of hassle gettinf ds1 to eat his
he was always wanting to go onout and play
my tips are
make them really tiny so that he can nibble them and dont send huge bags of crips
if htey dont eatt he sandwhiches then take aout everything else till they do then re store the treat type things bit by bit

well i remember when we lived in gibraltar a spanish teacher putting sellotape over my mouth
I must have been all of 4.
silly cow.

I htink angrymum you are sounding very nervous aboutt he whole school thing. relax!

angrymum, you seem very angry for the mum of a child whose name was simply written on a board. In reception the toilets are likely to be in a seperate part of the building and having a child just wonder off without anyone noticing could be potentially quite serious. What if he didn't find his was back and no-one noticed until home time when someone came to collect him? It's very difficult to keep track of up to 30 small children all time, and not wondering off is something that needs to be gotten through to the children from very early on.
As for having a sad face board, this is something that I have witnessed it lots of classrooms and something that I feel is the least humiliating of sanctions. What would you suggest as an effective sanction of bad behaviour or doing the wrong thing? Other possible sanctions such as timeout on a naughty chair or standing at the door, having to stay in at break, being sent to the headteacher etc are far more humiliating.
I'm a new teacher and look much younger than I actually am. The knowledge that parents have already formed negative opinions of me because of this is part of what makes dealing parents one of the least appealing aspects of teaching. Maybe the teacher has picked up on your negative attitute and that has affected how she communicates with you. Maybe she is just nervous?

Getting your name on a sad sun board when you're 8 years old and you know the score about school isn't public humiliation. At 4 and a half, when you have just started school and you're in the first week, I can't see how anyone can see it as anything else.

Well angrymum, I too feel very much like you but for different reasons - my ds (only just 4) started reception and a harsh comment from his newly qualified (young but with a strict,matronly attitude) teacher made him sob on arrival at school. Yes, children need to be taught to not leave their seats without asking but FGS when they've just started school, can't they give them a break?
BTW where was the toilet, just off the classroom? could he have got lost on the way back?

I think this thread makes a good case for children NOT going to school at 4 tbh. I still think a sad face is over the top for a first time offence the first week. The teacher should have explained it to them (I know she might have done but surely she doesn't expect 4yos to remember everything the first week?) but forgetting is understandable. I do think we have a right as parents to question this kind of thing actually and I don't think it's over the top to want to discuss it. I also don't think any of us should go in 'all guns blazing' ever, until we have heard the whole story from everyones pov. I'm not getting at teachers or you hmb, but I don't think a quick, polite conversation about this is unreasonable in the first week of school.

I was thinking that www when I was posting - these sorts of incidents bring us back to the basic problem, which is that children are being sent to an institution which is not adapted to their needs at too young an age. Teachers are not nursery workers, but in effect, that's what many of these very young children need because they simply have not got to a stage of development where they can physically and psychologically cope with a normal school.

I don't think that any reasonable teacher would object to a quiet word, quuite the contrary. THis treat does say that the mum was angry tho. and first post was saying that she felt she was going to explode. Not condusive to forming a trusting relationship.

I am very glad dd will be just about 5 when she starts. It's crazy to send a 4 year old to school.

It very much depends on the child. Dd was ready before she was 4, ds still has some probelms. Girls are ready before boys in general, I think.

hmb, I think angrymum has every right to be angry, first for the original problem, and then for being dismissed by a very busy and important teacher. She hasn't said she is going to go into the school with a machete, though has she? She has specifically said that she's not going to go in with all guns blazing. So why shouldn't she be entitled to her feelings? After all, she's not going to express them in an anti-social or offensive manner.

I agree with you re the boys thing by the way - have you read Steve Biddulph on the subject? He suggests that boys should be in the same class as girls who are a year older than them until their late teens.

No I agree, and said as much in an earlier posting.

Haven't read SB, but I must say that in my experience even at secondary boys are less emotionally prepared and organised for work. Even at the most able levels boys are usually less organsed than the girls (not just talking about neatness etc here). For example girls tend to be able to get on with the work and have a chat with their mates when they finish it. Boys never seem to cotton on that this is the easiest way of getting through the lesson!

No matter how little written work you ask of a class they boys always have to be cadjoled into finishing things. You also tend to get more Kinesthetic only learners among boys than girls and this group of learners find the currebt educational system most difficult.

It is also interesting that studies have show that if a boy suveeds he praises hiself and if he fails be blames the teacher. Girls do it the other way around.

I know of some schools where science and maths are now taught as separate sex classes as the boys do better if the girls are not present. they are also not helped by the rise in the use of course work, which they find more difficult.

My Dd1 started reception last week, at the same place as she has been to nursery so not as big a change as it could have been. We had a a meet the teacher evening and were given a timetable, told what to expect from the year in terms of learning, how to help, how to interpret what they say about a school. And also how the biggest thing they were teaching them was independence - which as you say is a big change from nursery. Really helpful and much easier than trying to grab 5 mins in the morning or afternoon with the teacher, hopefully your paretns evening next week will put your mind at rest a bit.

hmb I hope my son's teacher is as intelligent and thoughtful as you.

wow,this thread has run and run.I have calmed down a lot now but still feel very sad about this.I am going to TRY and have a chat to the teacher about the this tomorrow.By the way, I have been nothing but polite and friendly to the teacher.I haven't been negative or rude at all,quite the opposite in fact because I want to develop a good relationship with her for ds's sake.
However,I DO think it unreasonable to punish a 4 year old in his first week at school for going to the toilet without asking.I think a gentle reminder when he did it would be enough.AND if it was a big problem for her and he was doing it repeatedly,how about having a word with me about it so that I can reinforce the message at home?? She sees me every day at the classroom door.Would that have been difficult???
When he told me about this(in tears), my response was to hug him and to tell him that he must always ask her.I am trying to work with her.
I do think having his name on a sad sun is humiliation.It's effectively a name and shame policy!! I think they should be given a chance to learn the rules before being punished for breaking them.
By the way, the loo's are just opposite the classroom, not miles away.
Thank you to the person who pointed out that just because I feel angry,doesn't mean that I am going to show those feelings.

And if she hadn't basically dismissed me any time I have tried to have a short polite conversation with her, along the lines of " how has he been, is he settling ok" , in this his very first week at school, then perhaps my reaction to this incident wouldn't be as it has been.Yes we have to support teachers, they do a very demanding job, but I feel they have to show some consideration to us as parents who also do a very demanding job and have to mop up the tears after things like this happen.
Feeling angry again now!!!

I think having your name on the 'sad sun' is not right at this age, especially for something not actively naughty and in his first week. Your ds should have been given some lee way, especially because in nursery he went when he wanted to.

What about sending in a note in the morning asking to speak to her for 5 minutes after school?

hi angrymum, I feel it was a bit harsh too in his first week (am early years teacher, but currently sahm).

I used the sad/happy face system to good effect in the classroom, but personally would avoid it with regard to toileting issues.

There is SO MUCH for little ones to take in and get used to in these first few weeks, gentle but firm guidance is what is required.

Do tell the teacher how much the incident upset your little boy. Of course you're not going to be aggressive, but you needed to vent your frustration and Mumsnet is usually a good place to do that.

Ask to speak to the teacher for a few minutes at hometime, rather than trying to tackle it in the morning - there's always too much going on then and teachers may seem curt and short because they're trying to get the class in and settled.

Good luck, let us know how you get on.

angrymum is bound to feel emotional about this - she's his mum! The teachers here must know this, it's unfair to tell angrymum off for her perfectly natural feelings. Angrymum is telling us how she feels so she can be calm with the reception teacher. My view is that its bonkers to punish reception children for independently going to the toilet; its important to explain the reasons why to them eg. "Please ask next time because I have to know where you are at all times and you may need help".Little kids usually hate being "in the wrong". Angrymum you're right to have a quiet polite word with the teacher as this type of thing could put ds off school for a long time.

Just an update for those of you kind enough to post supportive messages.
Had a word with the teacher about this this morning and found out what had happened.Apparently they had come in from the playground after break and the children were sitting on the carpet waiting for the lesson to begin, and ds came into the class after everyone else because he had been to the loo.
Personally I think he was very sensible to go at the end of break, before class began, and I also think that the teacher should have checked that she had all the children in the classroom, perhaps by counting them as they came in through the classroom door.
However I am not the teacher.She said that if there had been a fire drill, she wouldn't have known where he was, and that he has to learn to let her know. I said that i agreed that he should ask, but she could she please remember that he had come from a nursery environment where he didn't have to ask, and that also he has only been completely clean and dry for about 4 or 5 months and that if he needs to go, he needs to go.She said she would never stop them going and we agreed that I would tell him that he could just tap her on the arm to let her know if he was going.I was polite and friendly throughout.But cried on the way home!!
I've got to say I still think she was out of order, but to be honest this has bothered me far more than it has bothered ds, who has gone into class happy as a sandboy today.I do have to put this down and walk away from it.

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