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Original poster

Help-angry with reception teacher

173 replies

angrymum · 18/09/2004 22:12

My ds started school this week.He is 4.5. Today I was talking to him about school and what he had been doing,and he got really upset and said that his name had been put on the " sad sun" whatever that is,because he had gone to the toilet without asking. He couldn't tell me any more details but I am SO angry I feel like I am going to explode.
As I said this is his first week, he has come from a nursery where they just went to the toilet when they wanted to-and I had explained that school was different and that he would have to ask-and more's to the point he hasn't found toilet training the easiest of things to conquer and I'm just relieved that he went to the loo instead of wetting himself.I can't believe he's been punished for this with some sort of public humiliation.
I feel I need to talk to the teacher about this, but not sure how to go about it.My initial reaction to her has been that I don't like her.She is very young and has just finished her newly qualified teacher year, and when I tried to talk to her earlier in the week, in a kind of " has ds been ok?" kind of way she just said, " yes, there's a parents evening next week " in a kind of dismissive, don't bother me way.I don't know whether to try and talk to her on monday or wait till thursday for parents evening.I feel like crying .
Any teachers out there that can advise me? Or more experienced mums? Wouldn't a gentle reminder have been enough??????

OP posts:
jasper · 19/09/2004 00:55

My ds is the same. He is very tight lipped about what is going on. Speaking to the other mums, most of the other kids are the same.
I think the big culture shock about school compared to nursery is it is compulsory.
With nursery you could turn up a bit late or pick him up a bit early or even not go at all! With school I almost feel like it is ME who is back at school and I am a little bit scared I might get into trouble for being late or doing something wrong or not complying with some rule I did not know existed

Ghosty · 19/09/2004 02:21

Angrymum ... all teachers and schools have their own methods of discipline and charts etc ...
We used to have a house system and children got house points for good work/behaviour/effort and got house points taken away for bad behaviour. Some teachers are stricter than others ... I used to give out points for effort all over the place but very very rarely took any away for bad work ... I don't think that punishing for poor work encourages children to work harder ... just demoralises them and makes them hate school. There are other ways to get children to work hard.
I would take points away for unacceptable behaviour but usually after the class had been with me for a while and so knew what I expected of them.
Of course I taught Yr 4 most of the time so they were older and knew 'the rules' by that time.
I think that punishing a 4.5 year old for not asking to go to the toilet in the first week of school is pretty crappy ('scuse the pun )
I imagine that the 'sad sun' is a big yellow sun with a sad face and the child's name goes on it for the day. Or alternatively it they might have a list of the children's names and a small 'sad sun' goes next to the child's name.

Actually, the more I think of this the more I think it is a bad system ... it is humiliation. And 4.5 is too young. My DS is nearly 5 and not at school yet (they start on their 5th birthday here in NZ) and I know he would be devastated if this happened.

Twiglett · 19/09/2004 09:57

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BooMama · 19/09/2004 09:59

So sorry to hear about this start of school experience - has made me really angry as my ds has just started reception and toilet training has only been quite recent for him too. We made sure the teacher knew this before he started and things seem ok so far.
I really think that the teacher's priority for the first couple of weeks should be to ensure the children settle in and are happy in their new environment. I believe discipline like this really needs to take a back seat for a while - how can a child understand what is the right and wrong way of doing things when they are so new to it?
And to humiliate a child as the punishment is disgraceful. It has really made me think that I need to find out what my ds's teacher policy is regarding punishments.
Definitely talk to the teacher - at our school the teacher is usually available for a quick chat at the end of lessons.
And don't worry about labeling yourself in any way - your son is too important for that. So long as you don't get mad I'm sure they wouldn't think ill of you anyway!

hmb · 19/09/2004 10:12

Also, was the teacher worried because she didn't know where your ds had gone? It can be very difficult to keep an eye on them all, all the time. She might have looked up, seen that he had gone and paniced about his safety?

whymummy · 19/09/2004 10:12

agree with twiglett,find out what happened first without getting angry,two boys in ds's y1 class went to the toilet,managed to open a fire exit and run away,one of them crossed the road and thankfully a lady saw them and took them back to the school,we were all shocked and angry that they could do this,they could have been killed by a car,the school said that only in reception were they alowed to the toilet with a teacher,y1 they could only go in pairs and there was nothing they could do about the fire exits,wich is understandable,this year the school is putting in safer gates,etc to stop children leaving the school unnoticed,i'm sure your son's teacher was concerned about him going on his own too

coppertop · 19/09/2004 10:13

The policy at ds1's school is that in Reception the teacher prefers children to ask. This was something we'd discussed as ds1 just doesn't 'get' asking questions of any kind. The teacher encourages children in Reception to ask so that by the end of the year they will all be asking before they go off to the toilet. The reasoning is that as they move further up into the school then they will HAVE to ask first as the toilets are further away from the classroom and the staff need to know where children are at all times for safety reasons.

It seems a little harsh to give a punishment for this so early in the year but the teacher may well have a "start as we mean to go on" approach to rules.

I'm shocked that you're not allowed to go into the classroom at all. Ds1's school has a policy of inviting the parents of Reception/Yr1 children in for 10 minutes every morning. Further up the school this happens at least once a week. It gives parents a chance to talk to teachers (and vice versa) and lets them see what their child has been doing.

I would ask the teacher about how ds is coping with toileting in school. This is more specific than "how is he doing?" and is more likely to get you an answer. This gives the teacher an opportunity to bring up the matter with you and allows for the possibility that ds might not have given you the full story.

BooMama · 19/09/2004 10:45

Can totally see the safety aspect and appreciate the teacher could have been very concerned, however I still feel there must have been a better way of handling the situation. Taking the child aside and explaining that he must do as he is told, never to go out without asking again etc rather than punishing him.

hmb · 19/09/2004 10:50

Agree. However, if it had been me it would have scared the shit out of me. Scared people do sometimes over react. This is a new teacher and she may have 'over egged' the punishment side of things in her worry. She is only human after all. Hands up anyone who has never over reacted to a frightening situation regarding children. My hand didn't go up.

Also your ds seems a lot less worried about it than you do, which is good, I think.

Twiglett · 19/09/2004 10:52

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jampot · 19/09/2004 11:04

at our school under the new brilliant reception teacher they have made about 6 "medals" - a laminated picture on a long ribbon. When a reception child wants to go to the toilet they have to wear a medal so if they get lost any other child/staff can see they were supposed to be heading for the loo and can send them straight back. Also it enables the teacher to see if a child hasn't returned in a sensible amount of time.

Ghosty · 19/09/2004 11:06

Twigg ... do you mean that saying it is humiliation is over the top or that what the teacher did by humiliating is over the top?

whymummy · 19/09/2004 11:12

sometimes warning them is not enough,how many times have you warned your child to stop running,jumping on the sofa,etc and they don't listen till they're made to sit on the step or are sent to their room?dd has just started reception too and on thursday she was put on "yellow" (they have this traffic light thing)for spilling water,well i don't know how many times she was told not to so i'm not going to get upset with the teacher over it,she's teaching my child and is up to her while dd is in her care

Beccles · 19/09/2004 11:14

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tamum · 19/09/2004 11:15

I think Twiglett means it's a bit OTT to descibe a name being put on a sad sun as humiliation, and I'm afraid agree with her. (I realise you are more than capable of speaking for yourself Twiglett ).

By all means speak to the teacher again, angrymum, and she does sound a bit dismissive, I agree, but I think to be honest you are going to have to get used to this kind of thing. I found it hard to start with, but teachers do have to keep control for the sake of all the children- not just for their learning but for their safety. It is essential that children don't leave the room without asking. I do know how tough it is to start with though, honestly

blossomhill · 19/09/2004 11:18

My dd's school has a happy, warning and sad face system that has been used in recptiona nd now year 1. I am quite impressed tbh as it is a simple and effective system although do not agree with the way it was your ds. My ds had a shooting and falling start system which again was a fairly good way of showing them wrong from right.

Ghosty · 19/09/2004 11:33

Well, sorry everyone but I disagree. I do think it is humiliation. Yes, they need to learn the rules but to have their name up for all to see that they got something wrong is too much, especially in the very very first week of school at 4 and a half.
Yes, children need to be told off (I have told a fair few off in my time ) and yes I have removed house points etc like I described below but I don't like this system that angrymum describes. I don't believe it is necessary.

Ghosty · 19/09/2004 11:37

Things like that stick in children's minds. When I was 8 I was told off very publically in the playground in front of the whole school for something I didn't do. Again, it was another thing I remember really clearly but nothing else of my time in that school stands out. Bit sad really that that is all I can remember.

whymummy · 19/09/2004 11:48

at my school under franco's regime,we used to get the shit beaten out of us
maybe that's why being on red or yellow or not getting a sticker seems pretty good to me but i can also understand that some parents are upset by it and i'm not judging anyone

Ghosty · 19/09/2004 11:49

PorqueMama

hmb · 19/09/2004 11:50

Whymummy How awful.

Ghosty · 19/09/2004 11:50

I am dreading DS starting school ... I am going to be a nightmare aren't I?

Twiglett · 19/09/2004 12:13

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whymummy · 19/09/2004 12:31

lol,don't worry i got over it,maybe i could have had a career if i didn't miss so many days of school pretending to be ill cos i was so scared but then again if i had gone to university i would never have come here as an au pair ,met dh and had my two beautiful children
so THANK YOU! YOU SADISTIC BASTARDS!!!!

hmb · 19/09/2004 12:42

I think that it can be very, very difficult to adapt when your child starts in full time school. I know that I found it very difficult when dd started.

I think the problem is that we all want the very best for our children, and obviously we have very stong ideas about how best to raise a child! And we all have different ways. Not right or wrong, as such ,but different.

The difficulty is that when a child starts school they will be in with possibly 29 other kids, all of who's parents want the best and will have different ideas as to how to get a child to be happy and 'socialed'.

With the best will in the world, I don't think any teacher, no matter how good, can statisfy everyone 100% of the time. It simply isn't possible. For every parent annoyed at a child being told off for something the parent thinks is unreasonable, there will be another parent annoyed with the teacher for not doing more if, say their child has been hit. You only have to read Mumsnet to see that this is the case.

What sometimes worries me is that often the first responce of the mother is to be very angry and go in all guns blazing (not saying that this is the case this time btw). I don't think that this ever going to be helpful.

In the end, we need better resourced, smaller schools. If we need to direct our anger I think it is better put in other directions than always the classroom teacher. Sometimes that teacher can be out of order, and then you need to take things further. But the bottom line is that it is unreasonable to expect a teacher to cater to the diverse learning needs of all the children in her care, and to dicipline them all differently, to use different stratgies with each and every child, and set different rules each time to suit the family stance of standards. In the end, if that is what you want there is only one possiblem solution, and that is to home ed.

I know that this conversation has been about primary, but we have had similar discussions about secondary. I teach 194 different kids this year. I can't be their mum, they already have them and most of them are excellent. I can only be their teacher.