Sick and tired of this... [sad]

[DemiLee33]

Hello everyone and thanks for listening.

I am at breaking point with my son's secondary school teachers/policies.

For I.E for ridiculous, unwarranted punishments.
Detentions for not having a pen or a shirt untucked.
Most good students in secondary schools are in I.e at least once within their first 2 years of starting. Most students have had at least 10 detentions by the time they have completed year 8.

Once again I have been in meetings, lodged complaints, cried on the phone to them. My son has cried and is so low in mood now because he feels beaten down by them. I have had 2 teachers admit to me that a lot of 'normal' 'good' kids are in i.e or on report.

Their policies are awful! Nationwide, secondary schools are so extreme with their punishments for such ridiculous, unwarranted reasons. Some schools have even started saturday morning detentions!!
I am so tired of not having my voice heard. Anyone else feeling like this? I have started up a fb group to vent about this and it may take off it may not. I have emailed relevant organisations and lodged complaints but these schools are a law unto themselves.

Sorry for moaning
xx

How many students realistically have the opportunity to go elsewhere? Choice in school places is an illusion! HE is not financially viable for many parents.

I don't think our rules are really based on the outside world

Says it all

If he only got 1 why are you crying about it

Lots of school rules aren't based on the world outside school. I don't know many places where you have to ask to go to the toilet. But kids need to follow rules in order for school to function and to learn that there can be consequences if you're not responsible for yourself/following straightforward rules that a lot of the time are about having manners.
Every workplace has at least SOME rules. Of course they won't be the same a school rules, and they won't all be the same as each other either. But if kids aren't willing to follow something like 'have a pen' they're unlikely to want to do what any employer asks them to do.

I could have wrote your post .... I'm feeling the same way!

He has a lot of great teachers but some are just all about punishments, detentions & isolation, my son hates school now (he use to love it at primary) & he now suffers anxiety.
I'm now thinking of taking him out and home schooling him

Those were reasons for detentions when I was at school which was 1995-2002. Saturday detentions were a thing too but you had to do something pretty bad to get one.

Your son needs more than one pen.

The rules in my, fairly relaxed, office are no bare shoulders, no blue denim (even on dress down fridays) and no sportswear. The rules seem a little ridiculous but I agreed to them, nobody forces me to work there. If I break one, I would get sent home if I can't fix it.

I don't think our rules are really based on the outside world
Why is this a problem? This thread has shown that the outside world has plenty of different rules depending on the context. School is just another context.

But that is the whole point. Children are not reminded to tuck the shirt in they are handed a punishment immediately.

Nope, if you read my post, students are given a chance to tuck it in. Repeat offenders and those who refuse are given detention. You've had one bad experience in one school and are extrapolating that every school is like that. You're wrong.

Children are not reminded to tuck the shirt in they are handed a punishment immediately.
Except they are... in the school rules, and often in the start of half term notices every half term, and usually there's some sort of 'reminder of expectations assembly' at different points in the year.
And any time they've seen staff mention uniform to other students.
Then add in that after y7 they've had all those reminders for multiple years.

The students not wearing their uniform correctly aren't doing it because they've forgotten and need reminding. They're doing it because it's a mini way to rebel, gain kudos, push boundaries (all the things that many of the staff will have done when we were in school for exactly the same reasons ).

I see students walking up the corridor to my room tucking their shirt in as they approach the door. They know the rules. They're lovely students. Students push uniform rules, twas ever thus. Most of the time it's small things, get spoken to or sanctioned and that's that, everyone moves on, everyone knows the score, it's not traumatic, everyone gets on still.

Then there's the (usually) minority who know that they can do what they like regarding uniform because home will storm in acting like their baby couldn't possibly be expected to follow the same rules as everyone else.

I can take or leave uniform as a policy, but whatever uniform or dress code a school chooses to have needs to be followed, not followed by most people unless you parent thinks you should only follow rules you like.

@IntheheatofLisbon, our stockbook entries have to be completed in red and blue. Red for booking stuff in, blue for out.

I normally do the same as Lougle and have them lined up on the desk in front of me.

Teachermaths

I think you need to tour a few secondary schools.

There are several statements that are repeated over and over in every school I have visited

1. The children starting school today will be in jobs that haven’t even been thought of yet. (Or something along those lines)

And

2 We are preparing pupils for the outside world. (Hence the clothing in years 12 & 13 being office ready)

And whilst tucking a shirt in might not be a reason for detention in your school. I know it was in ds’s

Dd is moving schools in September and shes grown a lot so her trousers are too short. She's had a detention because of it but i refuse to buy her any more as they are 21 a pair and she has a month left. She's expecting more detentions even though she's told them her mean mother won't spend the money. I really don't care and nor does she.

Fair play to your and your daughter Fibbke. If more parents were like you then schools would have to stop pulling this shit. What a waste of money, not to mention resources and damage to the planet to buy a new pair.

I am boggled by the over investment in children's lives. How are they going to grow-up to be resilient, self-sufficient adults if you are getting involved in their detentions for forgetting a pen? Where does it end?

I doubt it would occur to my DCs to tell me they had a detention for the same (although as they both seem to have the entirety of Paperchase in their bags I doubt it), and nor should they. I would expect the school to get in touch re serious breaches of the behaviour code.

A detention is just that, not a permanent exclusion or jail sentence.

@DemiLee33 our son got a 45 minute detention for not having a pen on exam day. He is a really good kid and gets good results at school but they still give him detention.
He is also in year 8 and at times I think they are over the top but the have 1500 kids to discipline.
I know it's super frustrating but accept it as I feel it's not personal.
It's hard to get used to the discipline and rules but I've noticed a change for the better in terms of being organised.

I notice people are supportive of detentions and other sanctions when it is a behaviour issue.. fair enough!

But my son hasn't done anything bad in his behaviour to receive these sanctions and once again, i repeat...

He is receiving the same punishment as the children are whose behaviour has been appalling or abhorrent.

For the people who keep on asking what the other things my son done to 'deserve' being punished then i am not about to write all about it because you are the very people who agree he should be punished for normal 1 off scenarios. But 1 other time was because his class were working in pairs and had 10 minutes to discuss their findings. If you get chosen to speak about your findings by the teacher at the end of the 10 minutes then 1 person only from the pair needs to do so. The teacher called out time was up at the same time the girl who was paired with my son expressed she doesn't want to speak if they were chosen. My son said to her and reassured her it was fine and that he will do it as the teacher was getting the class to stop their conferring. The teacher sanctioned my son a move because he was talking... So that meant it was my son's third move that week ( the other 2 were issued for ridiculous, unfair reasons too) so because it was the third, it triggered a day in i.e. My son was so low and pleaded with the teacher after the lesson but the teacher didn't budge. So I rang the school and this is where I got upset for my son.

His school took away all warnings after the easter break.
If you receive 3 moves within 1 week then it results is an i.e and because some teachers are issuing moves for silly reasons that is why several members of staff have admitted to me that numerous 'good' children are getting into trouble so easily and they have agreed that a lack of consistency in teachers doesn't help children.

I am registered disabled and live with limitation every day and my younger son has specific needs which are difficult to meet and is currently being assessed via the relevant organisations.

So for the nasty comments on here by people taking the piss out of me for crying a bit at one point with the amount of stress i was under then you should be ashamed of yourselves. Even those that have said not to get emotional abut it and to complain the right way if i am not happy. I have done. I have written to governors board and been in touch with a few people so far who are dealing with my complaint. How dare I get a little upset on the phone with 1 member of staff during the thick of the issues because i was feeling slightly overwhelmed!! My goodness some of you on here are s quick to judge.

I wouldn't get too involved. He will only see his side of the story.

And thank you to some newer comments from other people who are sharing in my frustrations

Fibbke .. The situation i described on my last post was true. The teacher confirmed with the head of year it was just how my son described. They then accepted it was a case where maybe my son should've known that that particular teacher doesn't like talking in his lessons unless instructed to do so. My son was simply letting his partner know he will do the speaking cos she doesn't want to. My son's voice overlapped slightly with the teacher telling the class to hush and there you have it. That teacher assumes my son is being ignorant, rude etc..
My son still knows this particular teacher doesn't like talking but my son was engaging in his work and doing NOTHING WRONG.
On the few occasions in the past my son has deserved a sanction, he didn't lie to me, He was upfront. And he accepted the punishment.

I put it to you all.
It is simple. Some teachers are too anal and take it to the extreme.

And there you have it. The lack of consistency amongst teaching staff. It isn't good enough

My son said to her and reassured her it was fine and that he will do it as the teacher was getting the class to stop their conferring.
So the teacher was getting the class quiet and had told them to stop talking and he was talking. So not following instructions.

How unfair. What if 28 other students were just finishing their sentences, just asking a question, just agreeing who would speak?

I'm one of the first members of staff to be telling leadership if and when I think they've not thought through a change in policy or a new policy isn't working and I'm also very willing to back students and parents if staff are in the wrong, but 'parent thinks it's unfair their child was pulled up for talking after the teacher said to stop talking' is ridiculous.

Yeah, dds Spanish teacher doesn't seem to like her much, always on her case, threatening detention if she speaks. I just listen to her and silently think he's a bit of a nob but perhaps dd is being irritating. She just got a level 8 in Spanish though so thats all the matters tbh.

My son still knows this particular teacher doesn't like talking but my son was engaging in his work and doing NOTHING WRONG.
Again. Teacher gave instruction but my child doesn't have to follow it because I've said so and now I'll call the teacher anal.

How dare they expect their class to be quiet and follow instructions so they can teach. They're so unreasonable. They should totally have decided that rules only apply to some students. Or better still not manage their own class environment and let the whims of students decide when the lesson can move on. Sorry 28 other students, we might be ready to move on but OP's child wants more time so we'll all wait until it's convenient for him otherwise his mum will call up calling us all meanies

I teach groups of adults sometimes. Big groups at times. Often tight for timings. If I have asked for silence at the end of a task I’ll allow at least 30 seconds or so for that to happen. Because I do not expect total obedience to my every word as I am teaching people, not robots.

Thank you DisorganisedOrganiser

Someone who lives in the real world!!!
Of course my son wasn't deliberately talking over the teacher. The clashed so to speak and this particular teacher is very strict.
The girls was anxious and said I don'tr wanna talk if we get chosen. My son quickly and not loudly or rudely reassured her he would
HE CAN'T WIN.
Engage in the work
Not engage in the work

But yes, thank you disorganisedOrganiser for being, dare i say, 'normal' 'reasonable'..

DisorganisedOrganiser
And I tell students how long they have for a task, give them time updates and count them down at the end.
I don't expect them to carry on talking and hold the learning of others up. It's about politeness and manners.

I also think it's rude in CPD sessions when adults continue talking after the speaker or session leader has called attention back to the front.