Sick and tired of this... [sad]

[DemiLee33]

Hello everyone and thanks for listening.

I am at breaking point with my son's secondary school teachers/policies.

For I.E for ridiculous, unwarranted punishments.
Detentions for not having a pen or a shirt untucked.
Most good students in secondary schools are in I.e at least once within their first 2 years of starting. Most students have had at least 10 detentions by the time they have completed year 8.

Once again I have been in meetings, lodged complaints, cried on the phone to them. My son has cried and is so low in mood now because he feels beaten down by them. I have had 2 teachers admit to me that a lot of 'normal' 'good' kids are in i.e or on report.

Their policies are awful! Nationwide, secondary schools are so extreme with their punishments for such ridiculous, unwarranted reasons. Some schools have even started saturday morning detentions!!
I am so tired of not having my voice heard. Anyone else feeling like this? I have started up a fb group to vent about this and it may take off it may not. I have emailed relevant organisations and lodged complaints but these schools are a law unto themselves.

Sorry for moaning
xx

MIssRant19
I worked somewhere like that. It's really difficult and at times almost impossible for the majority to get a good enough education.
What tends to happen is schools with that sort of behaviour tolerance end up eventually getting slammed by Ofsted and forced into academy status, or forced transfer to a bigger chain.

Ultimately that sort of poor climate is what happens when leaders don't get a grip on behaviour and make it clear to students/parents that the rules apply to everyone.

We had a student at fe college doing an a level English lit and his mum contacted the college to complain because he didn't like and therefore should be excused from doing, the work on Shakespeare.

This phillistine bullying identified by you OP and corruption due to mass commoditisation of 'education', prevalent in britain's education system, is deeply concerning.

Mumsnet seems, sadly, to provide a platform for many barely literate, rude and thoroughly unprofessional 'teachers' who promote bullying and Human Rights law breaching treatment of our school children on its Secondary education threads particularly.

These 'teachers' reaction to gentle questioning is often to attack parents.

I have absolutely no idea why many of them are teachers.

Although pretty much anyone with a pulse can get a job in schools these days, they are so desparate for teaching staff.

Sadly, one sees this reflected in the real life attitudes of some acting teachers.

However, many or most are hard working, caring and professional heroines and heroes.

My heartfelt sympathies to you and your little one, OP.

If I had schoolage kids right now, I wouldn't let them near british schools/education system in its current state.

A little PS.
This thuggish 'teacher' behaviour is reserved for state school children.

Private school children are generally preserved from these awful and unjust 'sanctions'.

Privately educated Mr Johnson, who as the next PM, will preside over a system which continues to enforce this cruelty on state educated children.

Funny old world...........

woman19
In part I agree with you, but I think your hyperbole on human rights etc is the sort of thing that doesn't aid productive debate.

On multiple recent threads I've taken the view there's a problem with school leadership. I regularly give advice on how and when to complain to the school.

However, I also take a dim view of pointlessly antagonistic posts from parents who think their child wouldn't ever bend the truth, they don't see why their child should follow a basic school rule (usually using the same poor rationale and immaturity of a moody 13 year old). Some gentle questioning isn't gentle questioning at all, it's fake naivity and button pushing where the essence seems to be 'But what s the point in expecting...' Or there's the excessive frothing and raging over total non-issues and its much kinder to say 'look you're being ridiculous, it's annoying but a non issue really' than it is to do what some posters do which is while up more anger because of their own chips.

Equally, you get a fair share of posters who are raging and wanting to storm into school and instead of giving good advice on reserving judgement til you have the full picture, how to get to the bottom of the situation and then complain through official channels, there's posters who turn up yelling 'demand to speak to the head / call Ofsted/ threaten them with safeguarding and then they have to do something'.

The frothy types can't stand being told that they're being ridiculous, but it's important to do that because otherwise people get really bad advice on how to get good resolutions from schools.

I should add some teachers are unreasonable arseholes and some schools get it wrong.
I just don't think it's always wrong to point out if and when parents aren't helping their situation or taking a stance that's not going to help themselves or their child.

In part I agree with you, but I think your hyperbole on human rights etc is the sort of thing that doesn't aid productive debate

'hyberbole' is a literary term. Learn to use it correctly.

Corporal punishment was eventually banned in british schools, many years after it had been in mainland Europe, by citing Human Rights abuses.

Same legal recourse will be used for current cruel practices in many british state schools.

Same legal recourse will be used for current cruel practices. I hope so. What I want to know is can it be used to eliminate enforced blazer wearing in summer. Because that is just batshit crazy and I would argue (and will when my DC are there) it is dangerous . And before anyone comments, I’m talking about the schools that never allow students to take them off, ever even out of school. Our local comp is like that, unless the head decrees it is ok which they do only if the temp goes over 30 and even then not always.

I'm bored with tolerating thick amoral inhumane thuggery.

Including those enforcing these policies, from senior schools management to teachers, to intellectually and morally lazy mumsnet posters.

It's how you end up with the 'brexit'.

If one is lucky enough to be able to read and think; then one should do so.

DisorganisedOrganiser
The best way that will probably stand to be challenged is parental action backing union action (teaching and support staff) taking joint action against specific academy chains because it's usually something that comes top down from large corporate MATs rather than individual schokls. Or, one of the school leaders unions coming out against it and pressure being put that way.

I'm bored with tolerating thick amoral inhumane thuggery.
Including those enforcing these policies, from senior schools management to teachers, to intellectually and morally lazy mumsnet posters
It's how you end up with the 'brexit'.
Turns up on thread, ignores what's been an interesting discussion of different views, makes sweeping statements, gets unpleasant when challenged.
Sigh.

Thanks Lola, really appreciate your reply.

DisorganisedOrganiser
Not a problem. Usually there's common ground even with differing views on some things.

The issues with large MATs are complex, and often not in a good way.

Turns up on thread, ignores what's been an interesting discussion of different views, makes sweeping statements, gets unpleasant when challenged
Sigh.

'Turns up on our thread' .......... I see.

State schools are breaking ECHR laws.

Everyone can choose their own moral code.

Gross when adults in power, and on the mumsnet choose to violate children's rights, but there we are.

Some adults are gross.

You've misquoted there. I'm sure you'd rather be accurate than not.

'Hyperbole' is a literary term. Learn to use it correctly.'

It is a term used to describe a type of exaggerated rhetoric, & was used perfectly appropriately by the previous poster.

You're quite right that U.K. education is a hell of a mess, mind you.

An English school no doubt

I once had a great conversation with my DCs' teacher asking me to impress on DC they must have their shirt tucked in as appearances matter while we both avoided the giant elephant in the room of my shaved head and pink Mohican grin
Funny

PurpleCrowbar
Thank you.
Zero debate to be had when you're getting incorrectly corrected and thrn deliberately misquoted.

There's some real issues in UK education. Many within the system are raising them as well. Personally, I find losing the highly emotive and false claims that working in a silent classroom is a human rights abuse (what some consultant and behaviour campaigns suggest) is a much better way of getting change & sensible debate. Equally, it's worth making a decision about what's really an issue vs what's 'in my personal opinion I don't agree'. E.g. expecting students to arrive with equipment to learn isn't exactly a high expectation.

There's loads of different ways of running a school and some I agree with, others I don't. It doesn't mean those who have rules I wouldn't personally choose are awful places that traumatise students.

I agree OP. My DD is a good kid, YR 10, no behaviour point, enthusiastic etc. I've had to complain about teachers behaviour repeatedly. And I don't mean small persnickety stuff. I mean overt racism, not allowing DD to the toilet so she bleeds on herself REPEATEDLY, pulling hair from her head....it's barely believable. This school is an academy already. I really dislike the attitude on MN that teachers are 'saints' for doing the job they do. My experience is they are often power tripping bullies, that wouldn't last 2 minutes in an adult workplace

Hebdenbridge, are you saying that teachers have pulled out your DD's hair??

Hebdenbridge
And that would rightly be a formal complaint through the proper channels.

I don't get the claims that teachers are saints on MN or wouldnt last in the 'real world'. It's tiresome and inaccurate. Firstly there's no big group of 'teachers' who have the same life experience and career paths. Secondly, schools are an adult workplace (just one with different ways of doing things, just like there's a full range of experiences and systems in a full range of adult jobs). Thirdly, many of us have worked in other careers.
There's a fairly good range of posters, teachers and not, all with different points of view and different experiences.

disorganizedorganiser I agree about the blazers. Equally mental, is schools like ours that don't allow them to wear outdoor coats when inside the building...so they have to go cold/store wet jackets in lockers all day.

Also see not allowing trainers as foot wear. Our kids walk a good couple of miles to school and it's much better for their feet to wear smart trainers than the stupid 'office shoes' that they insist they wear. I work in an office, for a government department and I wear trainers. Because I value my feet and my back. It's nuts

I always drilled into my dds that they have to pick their battles. It's not worth getting in trouble/noticed over fashion/shoes/hairstyles. I told them that alot of the rules are stupid but just follow them whilst at school. But they get more and more stupid and are in danger of affecting children's health.

Secondary school is doing it's best to grind the enthusiasm for learning out of my DD. It's really detrimental and a massive massive shame for the well behaved enthusiastic kids. Especially like my DD, those that are middle/lower set that aren't going to 'do alright anyway'

Yes fritata that is correct

Yes they are the hills I would die on I think. The blazers and not allowing outdoor coats. Since I don’t have DC in secondary yet I haven’t done anything about it with the school. I may seem like ‘that parent’ on this thread but I am not quite so bad as to go into a school I have no links with and kick off . I certainly would do if it was my DC though.

Lola my opinion remains unchanged

Due to the experiences of both my dds, I have zero faith in our education system. I only send them to school because I have to by law

My youngest has been bullied and sexually assaulted at school in primary and left with severe mental health problems

fritata another story...dd1 messages me because she feels very unwell. I tell her to go and see HoY to get permission to come home. I don't hear anything else so phone reception to check on her (she has a health condition). I am told that she has been to reception, had a drink, gone back to class happy. I get hold of DD who hasn't been to reception at all, can't find HoY and is in severe pain. I drive to school to collect her. They spend some time trying to find her and then bring me the wrong child (a different wrong child, than the first)

Another story...DD goes back into school after 2 days off with flu type symptoms. Dance teacher says she isn't performing well. She sits the class down, makes DD and other under-performers repeat the routine over and over until end of class. DD goes to HoY as she now feels dizzy and sick and is told she can't go home, has to power through as her attendance isn't good enough

We now bypass their internal process for coming home. If DD feels unwell, she messages me and I go and get her