MNHQ here: Parliamentary debate on authorised absence from school – an MP wants to know your views

[RowanMumsnet]

Hello

Parliament's engagement team have been in touch about an upcoming debate they'd like you to contribute to: I'll let them take it from here

“Would you request authorised absence from school during term time for your child? Under what circumstances? If you have requested an absence, was it granted?"

"Steve Double MP is holding a debate on authorised absence from school on Wednesday 5 June and he wants to hear about your experiences and opinions on the topic."

"For a bit of context: in April 2017, the Supreme Court unanimously ruled against Jon Platt, a father who refused to pay a fine for taking his daughter out of school for a holiday during term-time. The judgement strengthened the controversial penalty notice system in England, under which parents may be fined for taking their child out of school without authorisation."

"Critics of the system highlight the high cost of holidays outside term-time, and the impact on tourism in the UK. The Government has maintained that ensuring school attendance is key to raising children’s attainment."

"Please reply with your views by Friday 31 May for them to be fed back to Steve Double before his debate. Alternatively, leave a comment on our Facebook page here”

Thanks
MNHQ

The education system is no longer fit for purpose in modern lifestyle. We live by the system invented back when grandparents were kids and mum stayed at home.
Now typically both parents are working in industry and family life is being eroded. Forget about just the price of holidays there are many parents out there who cant get time off in school holidays and who cant get time off together..these families have to look at other dates to spend time together and are being penalised for working

The whole system needs revamped..why do schools have to close for weeks of the year..why not use technology and create more jobs by having it open all year round with parents taking kids out when it suits them. We can use technology to create portfolios of work completed for each child. Kids who have missed october due to illness can catch up somewhat.
It fits industry better and the holiday systems adults have to use..after all thats what we are preparing kids for.

It disgusts me when parents are penalised for wanting to spend time with their own kids. What is the point in having them only to hand them over to the state most of the year. Parents absolutely should have right to remove a child for a family occasion. It would be easy to provide a death notice etc as proof. Any wonder we have such poor mental health if the state disregards feelings and family life so readily.

And then they have the gall to close for elections and crap..why is this even a thing anymore? Are there not other community buildings we can use?
It is also very snobby to say that only educational holidays should be allowed..any type of travel broadens a childs horizons..i barely left my home town and housing estate til i was 19..great attender at school but no confidence when it came to using transport and foreign travel. I wasnt worldly at all. Travel lets kids see other cultures currencies and language..it opens up the world and encourages curiosity..even if it is benidorm etc.

Fining parents is a load of old fanny.
Schools close for polling days/ inset days/ teachers strike days and so forth
And parents are meant to take it on the chin.
Wales are already allowed two weeks in term time. We are one country parents in England should have the same privilege.

Everyone knows travel broadens the mind
No child was ever harmed by having a fun time with parents as long as it’s sensible.

Parents will get round this any way they can and anyway they can without paying a fine.
A funeral abroad...well there’s. So many blended families these days it’s quite easy to have 6 grandmas and grandadas
Throw in a couple of destination weddings and you’re all set
When that pile is exhausted...well you can always fall back good old vomiting and diahorrea

Parents are very creative...don’t you think?

Great post blubberyboo
I fully agree

I have known very few holidays in term time that are genuinely necessary. When I hear that the holiday in term time is a caravan park in North Wales because they genuinely can't afford a holiday otherwise, then I will have sympathy.
We've never been abroad for a holiday, I've never even had a passport. I, and my dc have lovely holiday memories, and you don't need to be spending £1000s to have a holiday. I think all holidays in term time I've heard of are saving more money than we have ever spent on a holiday for our family of 5.

If I was the government, I'd reset fines. I'd say for a holiday you look at the equivalent cost of the holiday in August, and the fine is the difference between what they paid for the term time holiday and the cost of the holiday in August.

There are some situations, like set leave, or illness that should be authorised.
The problem has been that parents have lied to try and get around the fines, which, I suspect, most schools are pretty aware when they have, which has meant things have tightened up for everyone and what was acceptable now isn't.

I completely disagree with the current system and think it should be up to parents, and with HT discretion/intervention for families with children that already have very poor attendance.

In general, my DCs' attendance has never fallen below 95%, and is usually much higher. The exception was one year when one dc's attendance fell to 92% due to serious illness and hospitalization.
We've not been able to holiday in over 7 years as my dh is allocated his time off and it always falls in term time.

He works extremely long hours and 2 weeks away as a family would benefit us greatly as the dc otherwise see very little of him.

Whatever the reasons though, I still believe that it should be up to parents to decide, with HT intervention if attendance falls below 85-90% (not necessarily as a once off, but more if it's become a pattern).

Especially as schools take time off when it suits them (closing for polling day, shutting early at least once most terms to suit themselves, and the last week of both Christmas term and summer term is all about watching films, tidying up, etc, and no real work is done). This is to name but a few things that happen at our school.

PP is right to say that’s HT’s are absolutely between a rock and a hard place. If attendance is low, it affects Ofsted and they get fired. 🤷🏻‍♀️

I honestly thing families are being punished for the pressure the government puts on schools. Whilst schools take sole responsibility for attendance figures and results, they are far less likely to be flexible with sensible requests.

Think, not thing!

CheesecakeAddict

That’s absolutely true, but what are schools meant to do? They have to follow Government guidelines on attendance.

Personally I think 95% is a reasonable target for most children without SN or chronic illness etc. I do think more absence than that affects attainment.

Having said that, I think that should be the parents’ decision, as long as it is also the parent’s responsibility when the child fails.

My dd only attended school for 8 weeks last year. Because the LA decided they didn't have a school place for her. Maybe I should have fined them.

Absence recording in schools is a bit of a problem. For example, my daughter has asthma, she needs regular check ups at a clinic which is always scheduled in term time. If she missed registration she gets an absence recorded - I can’t move the clinic appointments and, when her asthma has been bad we have received letters home about improving the level of her attendance.

In the last year she has started doing dance (helps with the asthma). She is now appearing for two nights in a show in the big theatre in town, but will not finish til late, so we are going to request time off. This is in the last 2 weeks of term, so she’s not missing much. I would argue that this kind of absence is good for her - performing arts being underfunded in schools, this is a great opportunity. However, I very much doubt we’ll be allowed the time so I expect a fine 🤷‍♀️

I find the current policy on holidays very hypocritical when local authorities are only too happy to accept schools performing illegal exclusions, putting children onto reduced timetables and having insufficient special school spaces to meet the needs of children with SEN. ds2 has not received a proper education for years. Sort this out and then I will start to worry about holidays.

Herculepoirot2 they also have the ability to change things. 95% is reasonable, I don't dispute that but the blame shouldn't be given to the schools when it is virtually out of their hands. Let's be honest, it's not the majority of parents taking their kids out for 2 weeks in benidorm, regularly sending their kids in late and having no control when their kids school refuse. So because we have a very tiny percentage of parents that do fall into this category, it's spoilt it for everyone.

Most children learn far more from a holiday or even a funeral than they ever do in school for that same time.
Schools are more out of touch with reality than they ever were.
Lots of teachers locally I wouldn’t put in charge of a pile of stones never mind children.
Common sense and discretion is something seriously missing from schools. But they are very good at enforcing the thickest of rules that they dream up.
Hence why I home school.

CheesecakeAddict

I agree. I honestly think more responsibility needs to be placed on parents for attendance, punctuality, behaviour etc. Don’t punish poor parenting with fines. Take away the school place and let them ‘educate’ their children themselves.

Would we, as a society, treat adults this way? Expect 100% attendance at work, punish those who wanted a life outside work too? Of course not, we are given 20+ annual leave days and can use them as we see fit. We are also allowed time off for sickness and appointments but children with disabilities miss out on their attendance awards before even starting school because they must go to appointments. Children should be given a set amount of days to take as they and their parent sees fit and if that includes duvet days or holidays then so be it. Children are people too and they need downtime and that doesn't always happen to fit within the prescribed school holidays.

Children should be given a set amount of days to take as they and their parent sees fit and if that includes duvet days or holidays then so be it.

Which is never going to happen at work. You get holiday at work to use as you see fit. Any further days have to be justified.

Government Policy has nothing to do with shool attainmenand everything to do with milking cashcow pare ts

Speaking as a teacher, I hate these fines with a passion and think they directly discriminate against those on a lower income and those children whose parents have to take specific holidays- some factory workers for example.

Some parents simply can't afford the extortionate prices of going away in the school holidays. Are we really saying that their children don't deserve to go in holiday until they leave full time education?

Furthermore, I think parental discretion should take precedence over the school's opinion. If a parent feels that their child would get more out of a week somewhere different- be it the Lake District or Lanzarote- than a week in school, then so be it. No child's education was complete ruined because they missed a week of year 3.

I'd far rather the government concentrated their efforts on regulating the ridiculous school holiday price hikes in the travel industry than going after parents who just want to spend a bit of time with their dc and perhaps want to show them another part of the U.K. or the world while doing so.

I agree with OneInEight.
My nephew hasn't had a full time education since last summer. He was on part time for months because they didn't have enough staff and then excluded because his school couldn't meet his needs and didn't want to be named on his ehcp.
His parents would have been happy for him to go to special school but every special school in the city was full and has been for 6 months.
He gets a tutor, not trained in working with children with his disability, a few hours a day. How is that appropriate for a 6 year old? Complete isolation and not getting what is on his ehcp.
His parents are having to go sen tribunal ( a court) to force the local authority to name the independent special school that does have a place.
It's a disgrace and there are thousands of children in the same position.
That is a bigger issue than children having a few days holiday.

I work in education. I think there is nothing wrong with a week off to go on holiday, it's only when it becomes a ridiculous amount of time, like weeks it becomes an issue.

The core of of the issue to me is that we overvalue academic and now narrowed growth and undervalue the need for students to grow in other ways. Even a package holiday to benidorm gets pupils from poorest backgrounds mixing with other cultures and perhaps trying new food. They learn how to navigate an airport. They might try a new sport.

School trips are too expensive for many including myself.

I didn’t during primary, used to hack me right off seeing all the richer parents just pay the fines and take their kids to Florida etc . Some parents just lie and the mugs stick to the extra prices during the holidays. Never ever stopped the persistent truants who really need to be in from having a day off every other week.

Really stupid system. My parents used to take us out in June, never missed a single other say and going by our successful school careers had zero impact.

Just remember that not all parents are able to choose their annual leave dates, some parents are allocated these without their family status being taken into account.

I don't understand why schools are not using technology more - universities will often record lessons and upload to the VLE for students to listen to for revision etc.
Can schools not do something similar when pupils are off either sick, odd day for an occasion or holidays?

The core of of the issue to me is that we overvalue academic and now narrowed growth and undervalue the need for students to grow in other ways. Even a package holiday to benidorm gets pupils from poorest backgrounds mixing with other cultures and perhaps trying new food.

Package holidays I have been on were fun, and I could eat as much green jelly and warm cream as the buffet had available, but they taught me less than a week in school.

I don't understand why schools are not using technology more - universities will often record lessons and upload to the VLE for students to listen to for revision etc.
Can schools not do something similar when pupils are off either sick, odd day for an occasion or holidays?

Schools do not have the resources to cater for people taking optional holidays. They are using all their available resources on the children in front of them. It’s not an all-you-can-eat Chinese; it’s a free education. Either use it, or go without.