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Original poster

Grammar or Private School for Oxbridge

178 replies

londonmummy4 · 09/04/2019 22:38

I wonder if you lovely ladies or gentleman can help me in my dilemma. My DS has won a place at a very amazing grammar school and a top private school. It is driving me crazy because everyone has an opinion on what we should do. We have no endless trust fund to help our 4 kids and who knows what the political landscape will be in the future. I'm inclined to go with the private school because I never went to one and I think it will be an amazing opportunity. But I am being told by various people that to get into Oxbridge in 5 or 7 years time for the private school students it will be a lot harder. I don't want to play that game. I don't care about Oxbridge. I think the journey and end result will be better at private school for our kids. Am I wrong in thinking this?

OP posts:
WatcherintheRye · 09/04/2019 22:48

Why do you say you don't care about Oxbridge, when the title of your thread is all about Oxbridge?!!

OhTheRoses · 09/04/2019 22:57

People were saying that 7 years ago too.

True story op. DD started secondary at an elite cofe school in sw london. She was not the cleverest girl there. We transferred her to the independent sector in Y8.

None of the girls in dd's state school year went to Oxbridge or into medicine. All the cleverer girls who transferred to independents are now at Oxbridge. DD's 6th form sent 8/9 girls to Oxbridge and 3 to veterinary college.

No brainer op not least because there is excellence across a wider range of subjects at independent schools so easier to get places at Oxbridge for some courses than others: classics v history; mfl v geography etc

Original poster
londonmummy4 · 09/04/2019 22:58

Sorry it's only to get attention! My DS has a place at both and who knows what he will turn out to be! An Oxbridge scholar or a drug addict! I just hope he is happy and able to make his own way in life. I can't support him! Various other parents have told us to make the decision based on Oxbridge admissions which amuses me greatly as that isn't my end goal. But he needs to earn his own money. Much more so if he goes to private school.

OP posts:
MollyButton · 09/04/2019 23:04

If you have 4 children and can't/ probably can't afford private for all of them, then Private is probably the wrong choice. An exception might be made if one had a special talent etc which might justify private to the less fortunate ones.
In Grammar areas the private schools can be less academic than the Grammars.
You will have less money for "top up tutoring" in weakness areas. Something that is often needed as much by private as State pupils.
And there are some summer schools etc. Which a privately educated pupil isn't eligible for.

But no one can really tell you which choice to make unless they know the schools and ideally your child. For example if the choice is between Eton and a non "Super selective" Kent Grammar then the choice might be different.

Justkeeprollingalong · 09/04/2019 23:06

Has he won a scholarship at the private school?

Original poster
londonmummy4 · 09/04/2019 23:07

Thank you OhTheRoses for your quick response! That is what I am thinking. I don't want to play some sort of game. I know it will be a sacrifice. I know we will have to work harder to pay for their education but I genuinely believe it will be worth it. Whatever the outcome for university but they will have to find their own way after that!

OP posts:
Original poster
londonmummy4 · 09/04/2019 23:12

We probably can afford private for all 4 but whether that will be an amazing private who know's! They are too young. I'm sorry I'm not willing to share the schools but the Grammar is one of the best in the UK and so is the private school. We live in London after all :} I guess it's too vague to help us. What I'm really trying to gauge is whether we should outsmart the political system and go state to challenge the private school bias.

OP posts:
FanDabbyFloozy · 09/04/2019 23:19

Oxbridge isn't the best for some courses so why the focus at aged 11?!

It also sounds like you are holding onto a state school place and a private place which is now asking for a full term's fees. I do urge you to make up your mind before another family starts buying uniform for a school they won't end up going to when you release the place.

FWIW for me it would depend on the schools in question - not the exam results but the ethos of each, and which suited my son.

Original poster
londonmummy4 · 09/04/2019 23:24

Yes we are holding onto both. I'm sorry but we can't agree/make up our minds. I'd rather go for the private school and my husband the grammar school. I am at my wits end! We have paid a deposit and will incur a term's fee's but that is nothing compared to the 7 year commitment. Sorry but who knows what the ethos of the school is! We have visited both once or twice and the headmasters/mistresses will/might change. I've always thought private is better but now I am being told to game the system and go state!

OP posts:
Genevieva · 09/04/2019 23:25

I think you need to put aside university admissions and cost and ask yourself which you prefer. Also ask your son which he prefers. You can then factor the other things back in and ask yourself whether this changes your view. It sounds like the university admissions history of each school is not a decision driver for you, but if it is for anyone involved in this decision then check to see if there is any substance to it by looking at the data from each school. Lastly, consider the impact on your disposable income and whether that is money you will most enjoy spending on schooling or on other things that might enhance your family life and your kids opportunities.

Mustbetimeforachange · 09/04/2019 23:26

To me it's a simple question if you can't do the same for all 4 children. If it's a top state school you would be mad to turn down the free education. Think what you could do to enrich his life with the £20000 per year you would be saving.

PinkBlueStripes · 09/04/2019 23:26

I went to private school on a scholarship. I think the factors to consider are which one your DC prefers, the ethos and values of the schools, the extra curricular actvities, and pastoral care/tutor support. IMHO parental encouragement is as important as school choice.

MimiDul · 09/04/2019 23:29

If he is bright, send him to the top private school. If needs be, apply for a bursary. Its not about Oxbridge, its a lot more than that. The little evidence I have with my DCs tells me it is the right thing to do for bright children. Within a term of moving schools, I saw a change in my DD. I like that everything is measured in good private schools. They know where the child sits and what they need help with. It wasn't the case in the previous school. A London state school classroom with 30 pupils is not the place for a hesitant child. I like the intellectual conversations because they have a learning for learning sake mentality especially at the boys schools. I like that they do sports/exercise everyday. They seem more ambitious and have a belief in what they are capable of and even my scaredy cat DD is a little more positive.
By the way, there is a lot more to this social mobility/Oxbridge application debate. I remember seeing a short clip with pupils from London state schools who all achieved many As. They were asked why they hadn't gone to Oxbridge. The replies ranged from "people like me don't go to Oxbridge" to "I don't know anyone who's ever gone there" to "didn't even think it was possible to get there from here". It will take an attitude change for some people and for state schools to actually prepare their pupils for the Oxbridge admissions process for things to change. A school in East London is doing that and the pupils have had many offers this year.

Original poster
londonmummy4 · 10/04/2019 00:08

Yes I have to agree. I think private schools have so much more to offer and I am not willing to game the system to further my child's chances to get to Oxbridge/a better university. Everyone has heard of contextualise offers now and they think they can play the system to get their chid ahead. I don't personally think it is worth the risk. Who wants to move to Hackney! Correct me if I am wrong! It is my husband that I am fighting against. I'm sorry to say we do not agree on this. He would much rather work less.... I am wrong to be pushing us so hard.... I am only mentioning the fact we have 4 children because I think whatever we do now for the 1st child sets the precedent for the remaining other three.

OP posts:
bluejelly · 10/04/2019 00:31

Private schools are a waste of money, in my opinion.
And they massively exacerbate social equality.

ABitOTT · 10/04/2019 00:56

Firstly well done to your sonSmile

If you've got a brilliant state grammar on your doorstep & your son is uber clever & will cope well with what it has to offer, then you'd be a bit bonkers to choose the private option. Also think how it will affect his relationship with his 3 siblings if you can not afford private for all of them? How will your son feel being with fellow pupils who may be very moneyed? Will that affect his confidence? (It affected my daughter). Will his siblings view him differently or favoured by you? What if one or more of his siblings also want to attend the private school? How do you tell them you can't afford it when you're paying for his brother? You are setting yourself up for a lot of possible future grief.

Sorry to sound like I'm scolding, but the way you've written sounds like your eyes have been mesmerised by the lure of the private school. My children went to state & private schools & the worst school of the lot was one that was private! Save your money as it will be much easier for your son to start at the Grammar school & then if it's really not working out, he could move to a private school. Would be harder to swap the other way around.

Last bit. I have one child who was awarded a scholarship at a top university & one who is very happy in employment. Their final school was a state sixth form, so in other words, they've achieved what they have in spite of us being mesmerised by what private schools offered. I've been in your shoes & they hurt!

JohnHunter · 10/04/2019 02:18

I wouldn't worry about anti-private school bias in Oxbridge admissions. Contextual grades are based on the performance of other pupils in the school and not whether it is state or private. It is possible that the grades at a selective grammar will outperform those at the local private school. In any event, contextualised grades are only one part of the formula that admissions tutors use when considering applications.

Send your son wherever you think he will do best. If that's clearly the private school and you can afford it then go in that direction. If the private school only offers marginal benefits over the grammar, then why hamstring yourself with 4 sets of private school fees? Depending on your circumstances, this can have quite a substantial impact on family life and harmony.

Tavannach · 10/04/2019 02:29

Grammar school.
Your DH deserves to enjoy life too.

Kokeshi123 · 10/04/2019 02:47

Grammar school, seriously. Anything else would be very unfair on your other children unless you are incredibly wealthy. I think you are worrying far too much. He is obviously a bright boy who will do well anywhere. Save your energy for thinking about how you are going to help four kids onto the property ladder!

Nat6999 · 10/04/2019 03:01

If he is a bright child, he will do well wherever he goes. Look at the other things like pastoral care, where he will fit in best, where he will be happiest. He may do just as well at the grammar school, think about if you find you can't afford to keep up with the extras that there will probably be at the private school.

PinkBlueStripes · 10/04/2019 05:45

There were some families with 3/4+ children at my school, they were either extremely wealthy or the children excelled in one area and had scholarships, sometimes 100% (often sports mad families although this may have been the school). You may get bursaries for subsequent children. DF was not as bothered where we went, it was more the fact that there was no decent alternative (really poor local school), which makes sense to me.

BertrandRussell · 10/04/2019 05:59

Hang on- you’re thinking of saddling yourself with 4 sets of private school fees for 15-odd years because of contextual offers? That’s insane!

polarpig · 10/04/2019 06:10

Grammar school. Private school is not a status symbol you know ?

Namenic · 10/04/2019 06:24

If I were you I would go for the grammar because unless you can comfortably afford it, 4 sets of school fees are a lot and life is uncertain (eg job market, increase in fees). Save yourself the stress and do extra curricular/tutoring with the extra money (he could do a rare foreign language or a cool robotics club).

I went to a good private school and had a good time, but I don’t think I would be able to afford the same for my kids (as fees were a lot cheaper 20 years ago). My husband and others I know went to state school - from what I gather there seemed to be less individual attention.

But 2 people I know transferred from private to state as they didn’t like their private schools and were much happier at state - so it depends on the school I guess. You can always transfer to independent at 6th form.

reefedsail · 10/04/2019 06:48

Do not make this decision based on 'gaming' Oxbridge. In the end it's a lottery who gets into Oxbridge out of the many well qualified candidates. It depends on the day/ week of interviews who thinks of some sparky answers, says what that particular admissions tutor wants to hear, has a bit of chemistry with the admissions tutor. So many human factors you can't control.

Choose the school that you can see your DS being happier at, and having a wonderful childhood. Oxbridge will sort itstelf out.