Grammar or Private School for Oxbridge

[londonmummy4]

I wonder if you lovely ladies or gentleman can help me in my dilemma. My DS has won a place at a very amazing grammar school and a top private school. It is driving me crazy because everyone has an opinion on what we should do. We have no endless trust fund to help our 4 kids and who knows what the political landscape will be in the future. I'm inclined to go with the private school because I never went to one and I think it will be an amazing opportunity. But I am being told by various people that to get into Oxbridge in 5 or 7 years time for the private school students it will be a lot harder. I don't want to play that game. I don't care about Oxbridge. I think the journey and end result will be better at private school for our kids. Am I wrong in thinking this?

And, frankly, the idea of people able to afford 4 lots of private school fees “gaming” a system that is intended to level the playing field a bit for kids from disadvantaged backgrounds is a little distasteful, no?

Is your goal to choose the best school for your child or to 'outsmart the political system'? How does your school choice achieve that end?

How close are both schools?

We have four children - DH and I were boarders at public school and both sets of parents said to us "if you don't have to pay fees, don't". I felt that we'd be 'letting them down' if we didn't send them to private school but they are very bright children and have done very well (so far) in state all the way - and we've saved ££££s of fees.

I find it extraordinary that you'd choose a school purely based on Oxbridge outcomes - what about the happiness of your children for the 7 years of their secondary education? Which school suits them better? Where do you think they will be happiest? Unhappy children aren't going thrive and have a shot at Oxbridge so choose the school that makes them happy. Private isn't automatically better and state isn't always as awful as privately educating MN-ers make out .

We have four children, three of them are so far at super selective grammars. My sons' school has a double digit number of children holding Oxbridge offers, several medical ones and there are children every year who get scholarships to US universities. The enrichment activities they do are second to none, even friends of mine who send their children to a 'top 5 public school' (not naming names) were impressed when I reeled off what they get up to. The cricket and rugby tours are to similar destinations to Eton's (in fact they play them in various sports) - and we are getting all of this for 'free'.....

Think of the money saved by going to the Grammar! You get to go to a top school and then save tens of thousands of pounds per child per year to have lovely luxuries in life. And for your DH to work less. Private school is lovely if it's easily affordable and everyone agrees that it's for the best, but an excellent Grammar is brilliant and if your DS is bright and motivated this sounds like the best option to me. Oxbridge is by the by - a good state Grammar will be used to preparing kids for this and if he is oxbridge material then he will get in from either school.

If sending all 4 private means your DH working more and he does not want to, then there you have your answer. It's grossly unfair to put that pressure on him. If you want it then it's up to you to work more to cover the costs. Can you or are you willing to do that? If you are a SAHM then you cannot put your DH under that sort of financial pressure.

Grammar schools get many children to oxbridge. The fact that there are so many bright children together raises standards. Private tend to cater for those who pay, look at the farce in the US those kids are entitled and privileged but need a bribe to get it to the top schools

Private schools are a business

”What I'm really trying to gauge is whether we should outsmart the political system and go state to challenge the private school bias.”

What an odd way of making a decision about your child’s happiness, wellbeing and quality of education for the next seven years!

You should choose the school which will best suit your DS, taking into account your ability to give the same opportunities to all your children. If you could afford to put four through private school you’re obviously pretty well off.

My local all girl's comp (top performing) had 16 students with Oxbridge offers this year (100 in each year of sixth form). Both my kids went to Cambridge (comp then sixth form college).
I have a friend with a son who did Latin in his spare time ( through his comprehensive school, but pre school classes). He did a summer school at an Oxford college and they offered him a place to read Classics (with summer school catch up classes). He turned them down.
Oxbridge, particularly Classics courses, are under huge pressure to recruit more students from state schools and from backgrounds that normally don't send students to Oxbridge.

Which would your DS choose? I would go with where he thinks he will be the most happy & will continue to thrive. If he chose private & you can afford it for all four of your children, then it's decision made.

My children’s comprehensive sent several to Oxbridge each year but not as many as the independent that the younger ones had to transfer to.
Do your research properly. Look at leavers destinations over several years. The yearbooks usually have them in otherwise ask.
That said, I’m on the whole with Bertrand. Wealthy parents gaming is wrong. Challenges to independent school bias is not affected by individual privately educated children; I’m assuming that was said tongue in cheek.

It sounds like you can't really afford four lots of private school costs (you say you could just about, but what about extras/job uncertainty etc)

As someone who went to a top private school, as much as I enjoyed it I applied myself because I was that sort of person...the opportunities were just as good at a local top grammar (one of top in country)

Family life is vital, I would rather have A husband who was able to work a little less, spend money on family holidays/extra curriculars etc

My DS has a place at both and who knows what he will turn out to be! An Oxbridge scholar or a drug addict!

Though, of course the two aren't mutually exclusive, he could be both!

Choose the school you prefer and can see your child (and possibly your other three, if them all going to the same school is a big thing for you) being the happiest at. Take them all along and get their opinions! Private schools usually offer a more 360 approach with a bigger focus and more facilities beyond the curriculum - art, sport, drama... whereas grammar schools tend to be more academic. It sounds like you have two great options. Good luck!

If your husband is not on board with private school, then I isn't really an option for your family. With 4 children, that's a lot of years of paying fees and potentially cutting back on other things that you're asking him to do.

It's down to money, can you afford private for all your kids, would they be the "poor ones" the extras bills can be hefty and fees go up. A good state school is far better in those circumstances

"He did a summer school at an Oxford college and they offered him a place to read Classics (with summer school catch up classes). He turned them down."

Completely off the thread, but would be very interested to know why, MrsMuddle? Having read a bit about the course, I would be fascinated to know the views of someone who was offered a place!

Anyway, back to the thread. What does your ds want op? If you can afford it I would go with that if both the schools are fine. I wouldn't be considering the Oxbridge issue at all - far more important at this stage is whether he'll enjoy the next 5 or 7 years. The only proviso to that is that you seem to suggest your dh thinks there may be financial pressure on him to work more to afford the fees. I think that's a very important point as well - one thing I would say is don't start private school if there's a risk that you may have to pull out or it will be financially difficult - that is a huge pressure on a dc.

(Lots of people love Hackney by the way!)

Have you asked your DS what he would prefer? He must have seen both?

Incidentally@londonmummy4, "we are in London after all"...what do you mean by that?

Send your DC to the school that gives him the most opportunities. The greatest driver of achievement is actually taking opportunities to learn!

As for those contextual offers, they won't apply as its for kids at failing schools and parts of the country who traditionally haven't sent kids to elite universities - dd has an aab offer (she didn't get it) but we are talking special measures etc.

Bias wouldn’t be an issue when comparing a private with a top grammar! The bias comes into play between a tough area and special measures type school and a fee paying academically selective school.

Oxbridge is irrelevant.

You need to choose the best option for your son taking into account what your family can afford. If your husband isn't keen on private and your son has a grammar offer, personally I would go for that.
Struggling to pay school fees is stressful and affects the whole family. Potentially affects parents health if over working to pay fees. Having 4 kids must be exhausting on its own...

I think you'd be crazy to pay private school fees for FOUR children when you can send them to an excellent grammar. A selective grammar is academically better than a private school IMO (as they select by ability not wealth!) - not that academic achievement is the only consideration when choosing a school, of course. Ethos is important as PPs said.

Why don't you add up how much it will cost you to send all 4 children to private school and then consider putting that money in savings for them instead, it could help them through university, doing a masters, buying a house, all sorts of big-impact benefits that are much more valuable than the probably minute difference between a top grammar and a private school.

I can see from another thread OP that you have asked about Oxbridge & state offers there too. If that is the endgame in all this then I wouldn't be weighing up the 'playing the system' choice you have referred to multiple times.

There is little system to be played between a 'very amazing' London grammar and an Indy (yes, even a London one). Your DS will not be receiving a contextual offer whilst studying at the likes of QEB or Latymer or St Olave's or Tiffin or any other London grammar.

I don't know whether your DS has had a bursary or whether your next 3 children will. But let's assume 20K in fees per year for each of your four children for 7 years...am going to play a bit of system-gaming myself now and suggest that you send each of your children private so that someone on the waiting list for that 'very amazing' grammar who can't afford a private place gets a grammar place.

But then I live in Hackney, so what would I know? I have clearly made some terrible life choices along the way .

OP - what does your DS want? He must have a preference? Are you & your DH going to be under pressure for the next God-knows-how-long until your DCs leave school?

Or would you like your DS at private so that if he doesn't end up getting an Oxbridge offer then you can blame it on those pesky state school kids ?

My DS secured a place at arguably the nation's "most super" super-selective grammar in north London even when one year underaged. He also secured a place at a top public school to enter at the correct age. Said public school is many places lower than said grammar in any academic league table you care to name.

I chose the public school with absolutely no regrets. Will do it again under same circumstances.