Grammar or Private School for Oxbridge

[londonmummy4]

I wonder if you lovely ladies or gentleman can help me in my dilemma. My DS has won a place at a very amazing grammar school and a top private school. It is driving me crazy because everyone has an opinion on what we should do. We have no endless trust fund to help our 4 kids and who knows what the political landscape will be in the future. I'm inclined to go with the private school because I never went to one and I think it will be an amazing opportunity. But I am being told by various people that to get into Oxbridge in 5 or 7 years time for the private school students it will be a lot harder. I don't want to play that game. I don't care about Oxbridge. I think the journey and end result will be better at private school for our kids. Am I wrong in thinking this?

@taffeta
I think your disgust is misplaced. Blame the DofE and local authorities. Private schools give you a week or so to decide whether you want a school or not. You pay a substantial deposit and then if you choose against them, you lose your deposit. It is an efficient system and very few children are left languishing on a waiting list. The DofE and local authorities could follow suit. It will cost them very little money to make the system more efficient. But they prefer to do things the way it was done in dinosaur times.

Completly agree with you Taffeta. It is immoral not to consider the impact both financial and emotional on the other children and their families who are on the waiting list.

Also a child on the waiting list for a place at a top London Grammar is very unlikely to have the alernetive of a ‘sink school’ !

Mimi - I didn't understand your last post. Are you suggesting that people should pay to accept a state school place for their children to mirror the private school system?

I would go with the grammer. Its cheaper and affordable. With 4 children. Do you have the money? A full schlorlarship? If your child is bright enough they can still get into Oxbridge.

Also a child on the waiting list for a place at a top London Grammar is very unlikely to have the alernetive of a ‘sink school’ !
Whatever not? Maybe that's why they've gone for a grammar school. What an odd assertion to make.

Just had a quick look. There are 19 grammar schools in London and mostly single sex. A child with grammar school ability is not exactly spoilt for choice.

You are kidding yourselves if you think that this place, for a top London grammar school, is going to go to someone from a disadvantaged background. Most likely it will go to someone else who is having exactly the same conversation with themselves.

I agree that this isn’t right or fair - but I also agree with @MimiDul. Blame it on the DofE, blame it on the local authorities. Don’t blame it on personal choice by parents who are trying to do the right thing for their children within the circumstances they have. (Although I am also against anyone holding onto places until the last minute - but as far as I can see, the OP is not doing this at all!)

@itscoldouthere The BBC programme about grammar schools shows that it can happen. There was Townley Grammar and the comp which struggled to have teachers and had huge discipline problems. So it can be a case or grammar school or special measures.

@melting I meant give people a small window in which to decide and give the place to a child on the waiting list.

Also a child on the waiting list for a place at a top London Grammar is very unlikely to have the alernetive of a ‘sink school’ !

That's a very odd - and wrong - assumption. London geography and pressure on places being what it is, it is entirely possible that the alternative for one child to a super selective is a struggling secondary in special measures.

"Why do you say you don't care about Oxbridge, when the title of your thread is all about Oxbridge?!!"

I think you hit the nail on the head, WatcherintheRye and OP is incredibly disingenuous. I was prepared to give OP the benefit of the doubt this morning when I first read this thread but when I (accidentally) this afternoon saw OP asking the same question again about grammar vs independent re Oxbridge on another thread, I decided I wasn't going to be counted as another gullible one.

There's absolutely nothing wrong to have Oxbridge ambitions. After all, they do have a worldwide reputation though they are certainly not the best universities in the world. For that, you have to look to the USA.

Neither is Oxbridge the best UK universities for every subject under the British sun. Let me be absolutely clear here - I actually look down with pity on those pathetic people wanting to go to Oxbridge at any cost; many going there to read some flinking ridiculous subjects at the expense of giving up on reading a more meaningful and useful subject they are more than capable of (say) in another RG university.

I wonder also, what if a brilliant student who wants to: contribute to society; help relieve pain; make you smile broader and at the same time earn lots of money (more than doctors, in fact) and so wants to be a dentist? Does s(he) apply to Oxbridge too?

This brings to mind an autobiography I read many moons ago by the late Mr Lee Kuan Yew, first prime minister of Singapore and a brilliant "Double First" Cambridge academic in the Law Tripos who almost single-handedly built a swampy, sleepy fishing village that was Singapore in the colonial days to its present First World ultra modern garden city that it is today! LKY recalled meeting some African students at Oxbridge in his urgency to rebuild Singapore post independence by networking and sharing ideas with fellow leaders of newly independent Commonwealth countries. When he asked these African students what they were studying at Oxford/Cambridge, to his great dismay, almost every one of them proudly replied, "Classics"!

Yes, Me Lee, it's as if speaking Latin, Ancient Greek, Old Norse or becoming a great professional story teller is somehow going to rebuild Africa whilst I see your Singapore today is flooded with doctors, dentists, nurses, engineers, architects, mathematicians, computer experts, teachers, lawyers. . .

The window for confirming a state secondary school place in London is 2 weeks isn't it? Offers were made on March 1st with returns made by March 15th. Some London indys have the delights of 'exploding offers' to contend with, of course. There's efficient - and there's pulling the rug out from families who can't get to the school in time chequebook in hand.

mustbetime I say that with knowledge of what people do to get into top London Grammar schools, it’s very devicive and extremely competitive, most parents will have also considered other options very carefully.

“A child with grammar school ability is not exactly spoilt for choice”

Well, they have the top set of the comprehensive- like most kids all over the country!

OP was very keen to point out top London grammar school, realistically she can only be referring to 3 possible schools

The window for confirming a state secondary school place in London is 2 weeks isn't it? Offers were made on March 1st with returns made by March 15th.

May well be, but nothing to stop Mrs Private confirming state offer on 15 March and then relinquishing place end of August. No penalty, no comeback. No morals, either.

Also a child on the waiting list for a place at a top London Grammar is very unlikely to have the alernetive of a ‘sink school’ !

I agree, the people who put the sheer amount of effort in that is required for the type of grammar schools the OP refers to will not be countenancing a sink comprehensive as an alternative. You only have to read the 11+ forums to see that the only options they will consider will be other grammar or private schools even if it means putting their children on a 2 hour each way journey across the country to get them there. Just have a read of that forum, it’s petrifying

@taffeta

Your anger, though understandable, is aiming in the wrong direction.

Not angry, just pointing out facts.

Facts which the moneyed don't like talked about.

Kids quite often just don’t turn up on the first day of term at our grammar schools.

@taffeta. You are doing the opposite of pointing out the facts. Your last post states the the OP has no morals - yet you don’t even know her so how can this be a fact?

I’ll tell you what is a fact though, it is a fact that less than 3% of pupils attending grammar schools at the start of 2016 were in receipt of free school meals. I think this has risen slightly now, maybe more like 4.5%.

Therefore, the OP is not likely to be taking a place away from a disadvantaged child. Blame the system, totally, but don’t blame individuals. It is so boring.

I'm not blaming the OP. I've already said I'm pleased she is making a quick decision.

I'm referring to all the people I know of, and hopefully anyone reading this thread that intends to hold onto a state place they have no intention of taking up (I've heard it referred to insurance IRL).

I’ll be surprised if the OP comes back again.

A few people have mentioned that by holding two places, the OP is blocking someone else from taking a Grammar place. They are also stopping someone from taking up a spot at the private school. Someone (whether extremely wealthy or not) probably really wants that spot.

taffeta it sounds like you have a problem with people that have money, which can buy them choices.
It must be hard feeling so angry all the time, I get what you are saying, but I think your approach is rather unrealistic.