Sacrifices for private education

[Jessikita]

I’m in a quandary. I recognise it’s considered a first world problem but this is the situation I’m in.

There’s a local independent day school near to us. It’s unique that it offers wrap around care (including all meals) all inclusive of the price.

Therefore it doesn’t actually work out any more expensive than paying for full time nursery.

I’d really like my daughter to go. The class limit is 12 to a teacher and a TA and the standard of education is just so much better.

My dilemma is we wanted to move house within the next 5/6 years so that will put a stop to that. (We live in a deprived area) And will also mean maybe one UK holiday a year as opposed to going abroad. (We have focussed on travelling rather than saving to move)

Shall I value her education above all other oppprtunities? Or shall I send her to the local primary that’s rated good?

Please don’t tell me off or say I should be grateful for affording even one UK holiday as everything is relative to the situation you’re in.

Thanks

*'In private schools, do you come across:

• looked after children
• children with a parent in prison
• children of alcoholics
• children where both parents are long term unemployed

Do you have children who by age 14 are sofa surfing around friends houses due to home life?'*

Certainly children of alcoholics, plenty of well off alcoholics and I currently know more than one or two had a parent (father) in prison. To be fair they are all white collar crime: mostly financial, but I would be wrong to say there aren’t any. I’m sure there will be some looked after children and certainly children who are on social services radar for whatever reason.

Always entertaining to watch private school fans desperately trying to prove that their schools have as much "diversity" as state schools. "Oh, we have loads of alcoholic parents too!!!"

I guess I was thinking of non/poor functioning alcoholics, not functioning ones.

LAC is interesting. Often, when a child goes into FC, they can't get a placement near enough to child's current school so the child has to move school. Though I guess if the neglectful/abusive parents are happy to keep paying it could be a private school they move to.
(NB I didn't say ex-LAC now adopted as I am sure there will be them in private schools.)

Does it not just depend how you define diversity though? It won't be diversity by poverty but my sons' school is about 80% non white for example whereas our local state schools to some extent are divided by religion and therefore colour.

However I didn't pay for diversity but for most things being better and other things I wanted such as single sex education through to age 18. I do think the private schools are probably a bit better at giving you the confidence to talk to anyone from any walk of life and to mix with all kinds of people in a way the state schools often don't.

Diversity never means "middle and upper class privileged children of lots of different colours"

We had a similar dilemma but dd gut a place at a good State Primary so we went for that and saved up for Private Secondary, largely because Secondary options here aren’t great. It has meant that we haven’t really had to make sacrifices and dd has has the experience of a larger more diverse school before going to a smaller more middle class Secondary School. When she started in year 7 she was much more streetwise than her peers who had been at the school since age 3.
Also 12 per class sounds a bit small to me, it could cause friendship issues, when/if either my dc had fallouts at Primary there were plenty of other people to play with
If the state provision is good then I would wait for Secondary and use the Primary years to save so you have a good buffer for fees in case of emergencies

I’d also consider the lifestyle that you will have if paying for private fees and whether your DD will feel different from the other children. I realise this sounds awful. I went to a private primary school - we lived in a council estate, had a battered old car and never went abroad. The other girls were very aware of this and used to make fun - I felt very left out. I went to a regular grammar school after this, which was miles better and more “normal”

Go to the local primary. Public schools don't prepare kids for real life.

other people’s opinions on the value of a private education compared to a state one.

But that's impossible to say.

There are some excellent private schools and some poor ones.

There are some excellent state schools and some poor ones.

They are not all the same so it is impossible to generalise that in all situations, private is better or state is better. We're in an area with some of the best state provision in Scotland - the education my kids are getting is first rate, and we wouldn't get better by paying for it. We did however choose to live in this area based on the schools and house prices were higher, but houses will retain value.

The bottom line is you need to compare things like:

• quality of education compared with local offer
• quality of extra curricular compared with local offer
• wrap around care compared with local offer
• commuting distances

versus:

• being to some extent in a 'bubble'
• cost in general
• what meeting the costs will do to other family life
• location of friends (wider area?)

and decide which side you come down on.

There is no universal right or wrong (unless you are morally opposed to paying), just the balance of your priorities and your local situation.

With regards to peterrabbits comments while I agree some Private schools may be like that mine wasn’t ( I was on a full scholarship) and DD’s isn’t
I appreciate some might be but don’t but put off by not being super rich( as long as you find the right school)

Public schools don't prepare kids for real life.

Maybe not, poisonous, but plenty of ex public school people have done well in life.

It depends what you m ean by real life. MOst children in private schools are at day schools. They often meet children in out of school clubes from all kinds of other schools and just at home, at church, synagogue or whatever or volunteering. I have never really known what this "streetwise" thing was. I don't feel my children have no skills to talk to people of all kinds - I think they are better at that than some children in state schools and nor are they gullible or unwise - they know how to take public transport, be safe at night, avoid people with knives never mind survive in rough conditions foraging in the countryside.

Lots of parents consider the fact that "they can do everything at school" to be a plus point of private schools though - so they actually don't meet other children through out of school clubs/church/volunteering etc.
Plus even if they do these activities they will tend to be mixing with DC from affluent middle class families.

I posted early on saying that many families with children in private education do make sacrifices, especially WRT cars and holidays, but a poster about 40 posts back rightly states that you need a reasonably substantial income to be able to consider fee-paying schools, especially for more than one child.

In the deep rural backwoods, it really is not an option for working- or lower-paid middle-class families as so many jobs pay only NMW. But if you are MC professionals (doctors, solicitors, teachers just, accountants, dentists, surveyors etc) then you might forgo new cars and exotic holidays to escape the huge and largely low-achieving comprehensives that endeavour to deal with the whole spectrum of ability, engagement and family circumstances with diminishing resources and much lower per capita allowances than most cities. There are few affluent leafy suburbs around here; run down seaside resorts, isolated farms, some nice market towns, a poor city, and lots of rough moorland; society is quite polarised.

From my observation, DS's prep school was the choice of the surgeons and consultants at the local hospital who sent their children from early years primary at age 7 to Y6, and then sat the 11+ to the grammar schools. If successful, they paid only four years fees, at a point when it is still relatively economical to do so. If they failed 11+ the families could afford to pay day school fees if necessary with some belt-tightening/bursaries (although the school had a track record of winning lots of academic, music and sports scholarships to public schools at 13.) A lot of grandparents contributed to fees too. And every year, some children left because it wasn't financially viable any longer but usually it was the last thing they relinquished.

I have met a couple of people who went to Public School, and although something i can't put my finger on made me realise straight away, both are lovely people, and down to earth.
They are both very good leaders in their profession, but don't do anything that my dh a grammar school educated person can't, or anyone else in their field tbh. They are well prepared for real life, I can't see how a school doesn't provide this, whatever sector.
I'm sure there are some obnoxious people who have attended public schools, too.

Depends on the school. Some of them really are excellent but not all of them. As others have mentioned, School fee inflation is substantial. And remember you have many years of it. It is cripplingly expensive by the time they get to secondary so make sure you have plans for your income to rise sharply over the next few years.

I should add I have two children I private education. One goes to a school where the standard of education is worth every penny. The other one is OK - wouldn't change it but it's not exceptional by any means.

I should add I have two children I private education. One goes to a school where the standard of education is worth every penny. The other one is OK - wouldn't change it but it's not exceptional by any means.

I think private education can give someone an edge on confidence but I don't agree they automatically converse well with all walks of life. They won't have had much if any contact with people who are working class, so there is no reason to think they would be more able at speaking to all walks of life than someone state educated coming across someone who is upper class. Ime, private education generally leaves you with a sense of superiority that comes across.

I know what upper class is but don't actually know what the definition of working class or middle class is. This is because my education was rather a mixed bag ! Grammar school for the 1st and 2nd years. This was followed by my family fell apart meaning I spent one year in a children's home. The 'fantastic ' system then shunted me across the town to the 'sink' modern This being where I had the privilege of being called a 'skank' by the gloriously privileged council house estate kids !

Then my very wealthy uncle step in and sent me to a well known girls public school for two years with his daughters. Finally I went back to my original grammar school for sixth form , when my family sorted out its shit.
The school that gave me the most confidence and belief was the grammar school, especially my inspirational A level Politics teacher.

However, the point I am making is we can be middle working or underclass at different times in our lives.

Despite making a slight criticism of my DDs grammar in a earlier posting , I personally think grammar schools give pupils the best compromise. This giving confidence without separating them from reality, this being something sadly true of most public schools !

Family falling apart because my mum had a breakdown and father becoming an alcoholic !

We have met obnoxious, poisonous people in every school we have attended, and there have been more schools in our lives than most experience because we have moved around a bit, both at the socially and economically "superior" level and at the failing rural comprehensive. DC has friends who went to Eton and from the local comprehensive school, and is comfortable with both, as well as with the parents from both extremes. We take people as we find them.

I don’t think your ability to “converse well with all walks of life” is dependent on where you were educated. DS2 who’s spent the vast majority of his school life in super privileged boarding environment during his gap year happily mixed with and was liked by those from every strand of our society from super super wealthy and exceedingly successful, celebrities, all nationalities and those on the minimum wage doing unskilled work with not a qualification to their name. Some who’d had the same educational experience may have struggled “to converse well” with those doing unskilled work with no qualifications but then some educated in the state sector may also have struggled “to converse well” with those on either end of our society. It’s easy to make generalisations especially if they suit your views. But it’s not just school that influences a persons behaviour and ability but home life, other life experiences and innate personality; some people are just more out going and gregarious that others.

I agree that schools are not the only or most important influencing factor in how confident people are speaking to all types. Much of this is about personality to start with, but it's also about what you are exposed to. Independent schools probably don't lead to lots of mixing with all types and ages, but they probably do give opportunities to gather at meals to celebrate a sports season or other activity which involves mingling and chatting with adults and kids.

Children are most likely to speak with all types if their parents put them in situations where this happens and mix with a broad range of people, so chatting to adults just becomes the norm.