Sacrifices for private education

[Jessikita]

I’m in a quandary. I recognise it’s considered a first world problem but this is the situation I’m in.

There’s a local independent day school near to us. It’s unique that it offers wrap around care (including all meals) all inclusive of the price.

Therefore it doesn’t actually work out any more expensive than paying for full time nursery.

I’d really like my daughter to go. The class limit is 12 to a teacher and a TA and the standard of education is just so much better.

My dilemma is we wanted to move house within the next 5/6 years so that will put a stop to that. (We live in a deprived area) And will also mean maybe one UK holiday a year as opposed to going abroad. (We have focussed on travelling rather than saving to move)

Shall I value her education above all other oppprtunities? Or shall I send her to the local primary that’s rated good?

Please don’t tell me off or say I should be grateful for affording even one UK holiday as everything is relative to the situation you’re in.

Thanks

I went private, my DC go state.

This debate is always coloured by how good the local school is. If the local school is actually going to do them damage, then of course you will sacrifice what you can (or move!). C

But if the local school is fine, then bear in mind that DCs only get one shot at childhood but can have a lifetime of education. Far better to have holidays, relaxed parents and family outings.

OP Ive looked at the website of the school. I personally would be very wary of a small school like this (with a poor website totally unnecessary in this day and age), many small schools are struggling financially, and their fees are lowish and I would want to be sure that they are financially viable. See if you can look up their accounts on line. Small school,s are often not well resourced you are just paying for a small class but IME that not really what independent education is about.
I also don't like very small schools not enough choice of friends, less extra curricular stuff because not enough children to run a wide range of activities, often less differentiation, you cant group by ability so easily and I believe that very bright children need other very bright children to work with and I don't like through schools because as others have said the requirements of a small child may not be the requirements of a young teenager, subject choice may will not be so broad.
Ive worked in private schools and I know this is going to sound like a gross generalisation but I noticed that when staff changed jobs good committed dedicated teachers don't want to work in small schools especially at secondary level.
Can you move your DC easily to back to a good state school at any stage if your not happy? Or as the fees are low could you stretch to a more expensive school if you want too?

I echo that the website is poor, the fees page hasn’t been updated in years. Looking at Companies House it (Private Educare Limited) is run by a husband and wife team as the directors. They are also directors of a nursery so if your child goes to that nursery of course they are going to try and cross-sell their school. beta.companieshouse.gov.uk/company/04406764/filing-history

Also according to the compare schools tool there are 85 pupils in the entire school - that seems way too low for decent sports, friendship and curriculum options. The pupil teacher ratio is also 15.6 which would mean less than six FTE teachers in the entire school if I am reading that right and ten who took GCSEs so I would ask questions about teacher expertise etc.

want. I moved to a different country, made quite a few unorthodox choices with complete conviction, took some risks and now I am happily married to a wonderful man with two lovely children and on the path of to a good professional career.

Me too dairy although I am a bit older than you and already have a well established and well paid professional career. Only difference is I went to state schools. Private school doesn't guarantee you this path and many many state school children have successful lives. You are naive to think this solely down to your private education.

Regarding your dilemma It was the extra curricular stuff that wins it for me Op- as a junior I was learning French at 7, in a proper science lab at 8, learnt tennis/hockey at 8 (with proper facilities and coaches).... in senior school most have duke of Edinburgh/ccf and go on global sports tours/undertake charity abroad. Also the sport is taken more seriously (I’m sports obsessed). Something like over 40% of our Olympic team went to private school (when 7% if the general pop do).

At DCs primary they started French at 6/7. No Science labs but you don't really need it at Primary level, lots of science equipment. And the Hockey Coach I believe had coached national sides. They also had more time to join the sports clubs outside school - so compete at County standard and above. Several Olympians went to their state Comp too.

DH and I both did well in school (my grades slightly better than his) and achieved the same degree results. Now in our early thirties we earn similar amounts, although he has bonus potential and is likely to jump ahead of me soon. He was private and I was state.

I agree with redrunbluerun in that sporting opportunities are generally much better in private. DH also benefitted from a wide network of successful alumni parents when it came to getting on the career ladder whereas I had no contacts and had to go it alone. His parents made sacrifices for him as he had two siblings but they feel it raised his expectations and he developed a level of responsibility and maturity that he wouldn't have got in the local comp.

I would be wary of such a small school, teachers will have to be generalist and support may not be targeted well if your child is in mixed age classes.

12 in a class is too small. It’s probably ok in KS1 but by year 4 it’s way too small especially for a Co-ed school. My kids all went to prep school and classes were 20-22. IMO although they mix with kids in other years a bit they do need around 20 to make sure that they have a choice of friends and the school needs to be fairly proactive in getting as close to a 50/50 boy /girl split as they can otherwise it can cause all sorts of problems if they dont gel and can’t escape.

£6k a term on fees buys a hell of a lot of tutoring (if needed) to top up a state education.

Most schools have a drug problem, private is usually worse because the students can afford them. The only people at university who arrived with a full knowledge of drugs was the students who had gone private.

There is no way on earth that private school means you meet people from all walks of life. Those on a bursary had parents supportive and interested enough in their education to apply. You don't have 30% plus below the poverty line.

A good education is achievable in almost every state school. The difference is parental engagement and support of the school. If you care about your DCs education, they will do well.

Private school is only totally necessary for SEND pupils for whom state provision can be lacking.

Were

I’ve had a look at the website of the school you mentioned and their Ofsted. I probably wouldn’t bother with it as a first option. It’s absolitely tiny, too small most likely for proper sports teams and specialist teachers. With fees so low and such small classes is there money for investment in facilities? The senior school is far too tiny to seriously consider. If you’re looking at private then look at other options and pay a bit more. I must also say that I’m extremely wary of privately owned private schools. They don’t have a board of governors and of there are issues you need to raise then it’s hard to do so and escalate them. I would look for somewhere slightly larger, one which is a registered charity and one where they’re able to offer proper extra curricular. I’m not sure what this school offers over and a above a decent state primary as a first option.

97 kids from 3-18.

Don’t touch it with a bargepole- regardless of sector.

No, you do not “make sacrifices”.You choose to spend your money on private education rather than something else. That is a choice, not a sacrifice.

Well said.

A school of 85 up to GCSE!! I'd avoid it like the plague if it was State or Independnet! 10 at GCSE! What kind of expertise in staffing can they offer? It's one of those small struggling schools, run and owned by a couple, which won't be part of a larger group, not up to date with the latest educational theory and lacking in the staff to offer the rounded education spoken about here.

This kind of school does not offer the eduction people associate with the private sector of vast extra curriculars, plenty of team sports (they will struggle to get teams out for most year groups, never mind have dedicated professional coaches for each team) a wise choice at GCSE and A Level and lots of specialist and highly qualified teachers.

Go and look at some bigger independents and get the sense of what the difference is, as well as the state schools. It really doesn't sound worth paying for.

We put both my DCs through Independent London schools and they have both done very well. Having said that, I would be very wary of embarking on this if it meant making massive sacrifices. I don’t believe your DCs would thank you if it meant no holidays or days out. I also think some parents put unreasonable pressure on their DCs as they want a ‘return on their investment ‘.

So...

You currently live in a deprived area and were thinking of moving.
But now your considering, instead of that, staying where you are and sending your child to private school.

I think you need to consider how your child will fit in at school and home. They will be between worlds and may feel awkward and out of place.

I was a bright kid from a working class home and got sent to a slightly posher school, slightly outside the area. We're talking state school 2 miles away with more mixed intake here- in preference to the nearest school with all estate kid. So nothing like the contrast your considering.

Nonetheless, it make me something of an outsider on the estate and I partly blame that decision for some of the bullying I experianced.

As an adult I completely understand that decision they made and have made a similar deicsion for my own kid. Like me, he lives on a "deprived" estate and goes to a state school outside the area with predominately middle class kids.

I do everything I can to encourage him to mix in at home. He goes to the local youth club, I encourage him to play outside etc.. because, although I can see the value of education, I also want him to feel a sense of ownership and belonging to his neighbourhood which I missed out on.

Your considering a much more extreme social distance. So I think you really need to have a think out this aspect. You may ultimatly feel that an elite education is worth it...but at least make it a consideration.

Op

Private is always much cheaper at the beginning often also offering the free hours etc. I think sometimes it entices you in when you can't really afford it as the fee's increase dramatically.

If you would really be making so many sacrifices, unable to move, limiting holidays etc then I would check out local state. Also Your dc will possibly be miles away from school friends and lack friends in your local area which if 'deprived' surely you would want to move someday.

We have an only dc at private and it is costly. We have an account set up with a huge buffer 'just incase' in your situation we wouldn't consider. If it's down to the cost of holidays etc and being unable to move.

I would concentrate on living in the catchment of a decent school, doesn't have to be the best in town.

And I think A level provision is more important; any bright kid can get themselves decent GCSE's with the right textbooks, the internet and a bit of parental input, mine certainly did at their declining state school. But A levels need top notch teaching.

I moved mine to good colleges for sixth form and they did massively better than similarly abled mates who had stayed at a not so good school.

But I have three who went through the state system. Two now at their universities of choice, with friends whose parents have already shelled out a fortune, one already through the system (Russell group, blah, blah) in a job with peers whose parents shelled out a fortune.

Don't get me wrong; if we were absolutely minted I would consider buying the perfect education for my kid, and that indefinable public school confidence and polish. Now we have DC4 we find ourselves with more spare money and DC4 is an amazing kid; incredibly bright, excellent sportsman, empathetic leader etc, would probably rule the world if he went to Eton, so we have considered it to help him achieve his considerable potential. But he is happy and thriving in our local comp, spent yesterday messing around in the woods with his mates and the evening chilling round the firepit in the garden with older sibs. He has a fantastic life and is very loved and secure.

I think that's the main thing really.

My parents did this and it really blighted my relationship with them. It was really difficult being socially 'different'. It out loads of financial pressure on them which in turn was visited on me through guilt and ridiculous expectations. I can't escape the conclusion that it was a great way for my mum to abdicate childcare but keep the moral high ground- I was out of the house from 7am until 6pm. And the local kids hated me based on the twatty all purple uniform and beret. It was grim and given our circumstances i would have been way better off at the local comp.

I would pick a different better private school in the area. If it is Leiceter look at www.mumsnet.com/Talk/education/2208344-Leicestershire-private-schools-help-please

I find it so odd when people talk about "holidays" in this disparaging tone, as though they were talking about designer handbags or flashy cars.

Maybe it depends what kind of holidays people have? But in my experience, travel, nature, new experiences and enriching days out are incredibly beneficial to children.

As others have said, fees rise as kids get older and just because education keeps getting more expensive, year after year. Do your homework. Especially with a small, "relatively" cheap private school. Some may not offer much added value.

"I find it bizarre when people say private school doesn’t allow you a rounded education, and the biggest draw back is not meeting people from all walks of life."

--Good point. That is because these people have never been to private schools themselves and only rely on second-hand information.

I teach in a top senior independent school in this country and have also taught in the state sector. I have come across pupils who have been educated privately from Day 1 but still struggled academically; I have also come across pupils who were super intelligent but failed by the poor teaching quality and the lack of rigour in the state sector.

Both sectors have their strengths and flaws. There are amazing private schools, but there are also some private schools which are not as good as state schools and are struggling to survive financially.

Will I send my children to the private school? Yes, but not straightaway as I cannot afford it. I'm from a culture where parents sacrifice a lot for their children's education, including burning out all their savings, selling their houses or even getting into debt, as they know education is the only way to change their children' fates.

If you have the money, go for it.

samlupin
In responding to the comment on not meeting people from all walks of life you commented on academic ability.

I was educated privately, my DC are in state.

In private schools, do you come across:

• looked after children
• children with a parent in prison
• children of alcoholics
• children where both parents are long term unemployed

Do you have children who by age 14 are sofa surfing around friends houses due to home life?

This is the kind of thing I think people mean when they say 'all walks of life', not just academic ability or income level.

Plus actually I think absolutely some (many) people using private schools (and grammar to a lesser extent) positive want to avoid people from all walks of life. They want their child to mix with kids who will behave well in lessons, whose parents value education.

Unfortunately children with disrupted homelives will probably have more pastoral needs which will impact on schools.

I don't mind people using private schools. Their money, their choice. But I don't for a minute believe private schools generally have pupils from 'all walks of life'.

'In private schools, do you come across:

• looked after children
• children with a parent in prison
• children of alcoholics
• children where both parents are long term unemployed

Do you have children who by age 14 are sofa surfing around friends houses due to home life?'

No but to be honest we didn't in state either.

"'In private schools, do you come across:

• looked after children
• children with a parent in prison
• children of alcoholics
• children where both parents are long term unemployed

Do you have children who by age 14 are sofa surfing around friends houses due to home life?'"

I can only think of social workers to have such complete experience. I disagree with you that parents from private schools are all non-alcoholic or non-prisoners. There are many children from deprived backgrounds gained 100% bursaries to study at senior schools.