Sacrifices for private education

[Jessikita]

I’m in a quandary. I recognise it’s considered a first world problem but this is the situation I’m in.

There’s a local independent day school near to us. It’s unique that it offers wrap around care (including all meals) all inclusive of the price.

Therefore it doesn’t actually work out any more expensive than paying for full time nursery.

I’d really like my daughter to go. The class limit is 12 to a teacher and a TA and the standard of education is just so much better.

My dilemma is we wanted to move house within the next 5/6 years so that will put a stop to that. (We live in a deprived area) And will also mean maybe one UK holiday a year as opposed to going abroad. (We have focussed on travelling rather than saving to move)

Shall I value her education above all other oppprtunities? Or shall I send her to the local primary that’s rated good?

Please don’t tell me off or say I should be grateful for affording even one UK holiday as everything is relative to the situation you’re in.

Thanks

@samlupin you are so so so naive to think that only social workers have that experience. I have all those issues in most of the classes I teach; not one of the most deprived schools either.

samlupin

I am genuinely intrigued how do these children from deprived backgrounds know about and access these bursaries. Is it through social services pushing them that way, do the private schools by-pass their parents somehow.

A lot of parents of deprived children are a areal barrier to their children receiving even everything a state education offers. (I don't mean low income by deprived - many families are on a low income and in receipt of pupil premium but are stable loving homes, with good support networks and adequate housing)

But they will be in state schools.
I know at our 'leafy' secondary there will be at least LAC, children of unemployed and sofa surfers. It certainly wouldn't surprise me if there were also children of alcoholics / prisoners.

To go to private (and often grammar) you need at least some of money / organisation / time / general stability.

Anyway, sorry OP I seem to have gone off topic.

Do you want another child? Can you afford the fees for both?

". There are many children from deprived backgrounds gained 100% bursaries to study at senior schools."
Bollocks there are....

Bo

I think it is a luxury to send s child privately and what is forgotten is that these schools aren't charities they are businesses.

We looked extensively at school but decided the right home and a decent school would be better. Only do this if you go the whole way

I think people are naive to think that there are no problem families at independent schools. Families with money can also be dysfunctional. Alcoholism, drug addiction, abuse etc are not avoided with money - quite the opposite sometimes.

Someone close to me had a very difficult, dysfunctional childhood - narcissistic mother, father who was probably a functioning alcoholic, used to be violent when drunk, but who was also a successful professional . This person went to an expensive public schoo though.

At my daughter’s independent school she has a friend who was taken into care last year. I think this girl was on a full bursary.

Just anecdotal examples but I strongly believe there are problem families and people with issues everywhere! Not sure how this relates to the OP’s question!

Back on topic, my dc went to a similar sized school at infant age - it was too small. The education wasn’t as good as state primary, they paid staff less so the quality of teachers was variable and the school was financially unstable.

OP - I am in your area and I strongly advise you to save your money, move house and send your children to Leicester Grammar School.

I agree with the PP about small class sizes. How can the school get a team together to play other schools for match fixtures?

Do not join a school which has no proper governance. Avoid.

If you favour private education, fine.
If you favour state education, fine.

But it makes me cross when posters imply that parents who choose state education when they could go private care less somehow about their child's education. I work in an outstanding inner city comp and I am in awe of the interest and dedication shown by our parents.

There’s too many variables for anyone to judge.
Ultimately it comes to being the best fit for your child. Your child will do best at the right school for them. It could be state it could be private. So look round both and make your mind up.

But do remember childhood education is more than the classroom, you can help them learn so much from days and trips out then they ever would from a classroom.

Those fees are really good! They are almost half what you'd pay around here for private prep schools. The pastoral care is a lot better imo in private schools- it's easier as there are less pupils- iyswim. We are very lucky in that we have a very good small village school which my daughter attends. I work in a prep school and would love for her to go there for all the opportunities it opens up to her. I'd say, go for it!

unlimiteddilutingjuice has commented on what went through my head as I read your OP @samlupin, and you said you were in a 'deprived' area.

What is the general ethos of the school like? How do they handle bullying? Also, importantly, where do the pupils generally come from? You need to assess how likely your daughter might be excluded or picked on for not living in the right house or area. You might look at the school.and think she'll gain a marvellous education, but what about her emotional development. If all are better off it's a long time in an important developmental period being 'different.

(Another consideration is what extras would you have to pay for? How many of these extras are optional-but-not-really?)

There's always the posters on that think you can afford private education if you just 'spend your money on differently' or 'make sacrifices'. But truth of the matter if you need to be quite well off to be able to do that. So I'm not sure in reality how 'poor' the not well off children in private education actually are. (Not very poor, and quite well off in my experience. Issue on here is that most people dont want to label themselves as rich (unless Robbie Williams is a MN of course.) Plus those that think they struggle are often in a social group where they probably are at the bottom of the scale (wealthwise). On a wider scale they aren't. But because they don't feel or see that, they think they aren't well off.

Well said Stripey !

We are live and think within our reality

Don't forget to factor in care costs for the 16 weeks a year they're not at school.

I agree there is less disruption in most private schools in class and fewer children with problems. I remember being the only single parent for example in both classes the twins were in at one stage until a father died (and that mother sadly became a widow). Although since then there have certainly been some divorces and hard times for some people.

You do sometimes have parents in prison but I agree it is less rare. I know one case. Alcoholics will abound and some parents will abuse their children - that sadly crosses all income levels. Sofa surfing with friends is unlikely in private schools although we know one or two sent from China to live with a relative locally and attend a day private school and they were not that close to that relative.

I agree though that for many parents where both work full time to pay the rent and all the money goes on rent and food and heat the idea they have spare money for school fees is not correct.

In Prison for what 'Tax Evasion' or running a Multi Million pound drug empire.

Actually in all seriousness a lot of criminals fund their children through private schools. A good way to clean cash.

It has become quite the 'status symbol' for criminals to send their children to private schools !

This is my opinion only. You don't need a private education to do well in life but it will contribute to overall happiness and quality of education of the child. I went to a violent and shitty low aspirational comp and because of it, I was determined to break out and have a well paid successful career. So much depends on the child. Given the cost of rising property prices out of reach for our children I've decided not to buy education for my kids but instead, save the money and invest in property so my kids can get decent deposits for their first property.

I am moving house into a good state catchment but it means being super focused because house moves are hard . And life, is easy to pass you by and you can do nothing .

I am not sure if you have more than 1 child to factor in but IMO it depends on your financial circumstances. If you are at all stretched NOW then I just wouldn't.

I won't say about the crime as it's not fair on people. Now at the other end of the scale my mother taught classes of 40 after WWII in a very poor bit of Newcastle and she certainly had a good few children with fathers inside. I found some of her notes from the 1950s recently where she had written down her class names and what the parents did. there were more married parents than these days of course and it was a Catholic school so less likely to be divorce but they were certainly poorer than most of the local schools there.

I've had a look at the school's website, OP, and also anything else I could find online. Their Ofsted report (there isn't an ISI report) is good but not brilliant, and it was the number on roll - 97 - that caught my eye. I gather they've only just started taking pupils up to age 16, so it might be worth asking at the school what the expansions plans are. I agree with PPs that a very small cohort might be fine in nursery and infants, but will become very constraining as your daughter gets older. Also, is a school that size really viable, especially on the fees quoted? I'd be worried about them going bankrupt unless there are clear and realistic expansion plans that will make the senior part of the school viable.

What are state schools like in your part of the country, OP? Because the merits of the independent school are only one part of the equation, the other being the quality of your state options. I would go and look at your local state schools before making a decision. Presumably it would be possible to send your daughter to the private nursery (as you say, not much difference in fees) and then to a state primary if you decide that's best.

You do have to be careful for GCSE and A level (if they attend until 18)
At my dd school they have very few choices, mine has one for GCSE.
We knew this when we signed on the dotted line and academic results aren't important to their futures, really.

I would have been pretty pissed off if this and other differences weren't spelt out to us from the beginning.
How many take GCSE's each year, and what are the options like. I'd look at this first tbh.

Of course there are children of alcoholics at private school.
Alcoholism affects the rich and the poor.

If you care about your DCs education, they will do well.

Whilst there are good and bad schools in either sector, the abov statement is bollocks

Tell this to my grown up dc, one went to a sink estate school, should have got B's but got C's and D's despite him teaching himself because the teachers could only fire fight. What a bloody waste of time.

Ds2 went to another shit state school, looked good, people raved, but he too gained at least 2 grades lower than he should, both of them had committed parents and I'm PGCE qualified. He has Aspergers and spent most of his time sitting in the corridor, as a naughty boy . They weren't interested in helping and supporting him. They just used to phone me at 10am most mornings to tell me how bad he was.

Dd specialist school, on a brilliant bursary, is more than reaching potential in Y9. She's not too bright so won't achieve brilliant grades, but general education isn't important to her. The school bend over backwards to support her.

Is it better because it's private? No, it's because it suits her and she is supported.
There are good state schools, absolutely cracking, we just don't have any in our area.

Gillybeanz. Despite your DD not being as academically minded as your two DSs she will no doubt end up with better academic results.

That is what a private school that is focused and organised can do. A child can far exceed their potential by being in a calm and organised environment.

The independent specialist school that my DS attends is achieving wonders. In just two years he has gone from not being expected to achieve level 1s in English/Maths, to being expected to achieve level 4 in Maths/ English.

He joined the school at '15' having been totally failed by the state system.....

letstalk

I totally agree, my dd will undoubtably gain the 3 GCSE's level 4/5 and the 2 A levels A -E that she needs for higher ed.
Whilst not an high academic criteria, due to the specialism she is applying for, she still needs Maths, English and another subject.
We were told a few weeks back that she is doing well and will manage a level 4/5 on the foundation paper of Maths.
We are over the moon and know that even though one state school here could have managed this (outstanding for sn provision) her specialism would have been lost.

My point is, that parents should look at the schools to decide, it doesn't matter what sector it is in, unless of course it's private, you can't afford it and no bursaries.
If you have a choice either financial or quality, find the best fit, it's all you can do as a parent.

I would definitely give up a better house or holidays for DC's education but I totally agree with Gillybeanz that the particular school for particular child is the crucial thing. If you are sure that this is the best choice for DD go ahead. If you are uncertain I think you should start in your best state option and see how it goes. You can always move into the private sector later. Start saving as a contingency.