At what point is going private NOT worth it?

[lexlees]

I was chatting to a friend recently and we got chatting about schools. Their only daughter goes to a top private school and it is a real financial strain on them. They reckon they spend 40% of their net family income on school fees and extras. All her wages go towards the school fees and even then only covers 2/3 of it - the remaining third comes from her husband's salary.

From my perspective I don't see how it is worth it. She maintained that it is not unusual. They just want their child to have 'every advantage' because both she and her husband went private.

Their girl is bright but didn't qualify for any bursary or scholarship and failed to get into the selective state school (they did try all three). Although the girl was top of her class in her state primary, she now feels so much pressure because she hasn't gotten an 'A' in anything yet. She is now no longer the bright one and it took two terms to make friends. I'd love to say she is a lovely girl, but honestly, she is an ungrateful and mean brat (she used to beat up/be cruel to my ds every time they were alone - then lie about it - hence I don't bring my ds anymore to their house).

They are putting minimal money into pensions and have only 'one term's worth' of savings. They haven't had a holiday for two to three years, never eat out and hardly buy stuff (except for stuff for their daughter - so she doesn't feel 'left out' at school) as they have a mortgage as well. They also don't have parental financial support or expect much of any inheritance either. I feel like my friend has changed into some penny pinching miser, always working out how to save pennies and she is just worn out from a low paid job!

It got me wondering if other people are just making ends meet to send a child or children private. Is she correct that it is normal? At what point does it become NOT worth it.

One day, maybe after GCSEs, maybe later, I will ask DS what happened during his 11+ exam. I would really love to know!

@settling: have copied your advices and saved in my notes they are very detailed and specific the area I am living in

@teacher: I havent read her books, my excuses that I work long hours and have so little time even I do love books. I will do as you said. I although know what she is interested in at stages though, for couple of months last year she was so interested about Greek gods so I bought her books for her little "research", she then drews pics/diagram(in her own funny ways) to link the god to each other, she knows about Greek gods and Accient Greek inside out we then watched together some movies about Greekgods( I cant remember them now as I have no idea about Poseidon and his 3 sons and all myths we never learned it when I we t to school).

@settle: I havent got David Walliam books yet but plan to buy all of his children books for her to read next summer(hopefully when she could read some of the books I bought and will give to her on her birthday-its a surprise present so she doesnt know yet)

If you have time, the local library is good. The books are free, so if she doesn't like one, you can just put it aside and try another until you find an author she likes. That is the key. Finding something that they will want to read.

I wasn't talking about secondary specifically, Molio. It is true that parents tend to use tutors more when there are high stakes on the horizon (entrance exams, public exams etc). British DC also enjoy the luxury of being in a system where the passage from one year to the next is pretty much guaranteed so there aren't high stakes every year!

Greenleave My question is: before starting seriously mostly at year 5 what did you do with your children in helping them both maths and english

I did nothing with my DS. He was given one piece of maths homework every two weeks and 10 spellings a week. He had to keep a reading log to show a minimum of 15 minutes of reading a day (outside of school). That's all he did until year 4. In year four he did the same but also was given a piece of stretch maths and stretch literacy each week. In year five he did the standard homework as listed, the stretch homework as listed and an hour of tuition in maths, VR and English with an extra hour of homework which resulted from the tuition lessons.

In terms of reading, my DS, until recently, hated it. He didn't complete the local library reading challenge this Summer as he only read two books (one of them was Ink & Bone by Rachel Caine the other was Boys Don't Knit by T.S. Easton).

The book he enjoyed the most in year 5 was The Hobbit. He started reading it at school as part of guided reading and loved it so much he asked me to buy him a copy (the first time he has actually shown a real interest in books).

He is now showing a keen interest in reading which is a nice change and he is currently working his way through the Cherub books by Robert Muchamore.

My DC will not willingly write anything and his writing borders on illegible.

@settle: we did Bond last year for couple of months for maths but she found them easy. I should start again now as just ordered the whole batches this morning on the train to work. I will then have to consider balancing her time as she is doing quite alot at the moment. She enjoys all the activities she is in though, if I ever decide to drop any she might be in trouble. I am on the other hand want her to play more, doing silly things like laying on the trampoline gazing at the sky. I wasnt learning much when I was a kid and doing much better in career comparing to many of my school friends who locked themself learning day and night(but it might have factor of luck though). I do sometimes wish certain things my parents should have guided me(either by more firmed toward me or open more chances or inform me better ) so I learnt these things hopefully learning from my own experiences too

Typo or terrible English: I meant she might be upset if she has any extra curr activities dropped as she is doing really well in them all now and loving them.

My responsibility then is to show her where is the point she needs to balance her time and some other things are very important to her childhood too(like not doing anything and dont have any plan for a day a week, just do what ever you like on that day. I was trying for it to be on Sunday but now every morning she insisted on going swimming and we agree as we consider it as her favourite thing to do of her choice on her "free of everything" day

Molio teacher I understand the pressures at primary level in selective areas but I was really talking about secondary level,

One issue with selective secondary schools is the children, once in them, may no longer be the brightest in the class. For some this comes as a real shock as they are not used to having to run to keep up or miss the praise they may have got from teachers/parents or friends for being so clever.

Not all children take well to the move from top of the class at their small primary to bottom of the class at their large secondary.

Greenleave, I think that you are EXACTLY right. My DCs are 'busy' children - football, dance, music lessons, at your DD's age swimming, Cubs - and I hope that you can see that the 'support' I gave them was predominantly through 'enjoying interesting things with them', rather than 'doing more pencil and paper tasks with them'.

Mum my advice to those kids would be to try to get over that asap or they won't be doing themselves any favours in life.

Bertrand is there any chance he didn't actually want to pass? I've known a case where a child deliberately failed.

Yes, I've outlined a lot of details about the 11+ maze. The idea is that if you as an adult understand it, you can navigate the DC through it with as little fuss and bother for them as possible. It is easier for you to be calm and nonchalant, when you feel in command of the facts.

I had a lot of worries, but DD only had to go to the tutor once a week and do an old test once a week. Meanwhile she continued to be on the netball team, then the athletics team, play club hockey, mountain bike with a club, study the violin (not to a high standard as admitted up thread!) and even to tinker a bit with the piano.

All this was for her fun, pleasure and joy. Just to dispel a myth: selective schools don't care about hobbies. The only caveat is music. If they play music to a high standard this helps a lot. I've heard people mention sporting ability. None of the schools that I have engaged with have shown any interest at all in sports. Perhaps sports scholarships are more for children entering schools at 13 rather than 11? Perhaps it is difficult to judge sporting prowess so early before puberty? I don't know. I just know that no one asked about DDs interests during interviews. It just didn't seem relevant. Though I had heard differently other parents. So, do activities because your DD enjoys them. Don't think it is like US college entrance where you need to develop a polished, well rounded cv.

Indeed molio.

Any kid of mine whose ego required them to be top of the class would be told to get over themselves. Sharpish.

"Bertrand is there any chance he didn't actually want to pass? I've known a case where a child deliberately failed"

It's always a possibility, but he really wanted to be with his friends, and his current school doesn't have the facilities for a couple of his main interests and he knew that...Who knows? I'll ask him about it when he's 18!

Molio - Mum my advice to those kids would be to try to get over that asap or they won't be doing themselves any favours in life.

I suspect that advice should be comming from the parents who are paying for the tuition for those children. I didn't say I agreed with it. However, I am fairly certain that is why, for some, it happens.

SettlinginNicely None of the schools that I have engaged with have shown any interest at all in sports.

One of my local selectives does a sports aptitude test and I'm fairly certain sports scholarships are offered at some private schools.

BertrandRussell your DS could an example of why some selective schools also offer a 12+ and 13+ option.

I do know a couple of people who were devastated when they found out which school their DS was allocated. However, smiling now that their DCs are applying to 6th form at the very schools they failed to get into via the 11 plus.

Any kid of mine whose ego required them to be top of the class would be told to get over themselves. Sharpish.

This is very very harsh. It isn't always ego but confidence driving it. When I was at school a long long time ago I was the annoying child from the non-Uni educated single mother family who despite doing nothing other than the class work excelled in everything. I didn't meet a comparable peer group till I went to Uni and it was a BIG adjustment to train myself to work effectively to compete with them.

I think some DC need more support than they currently get with this and it is a bit naive to assume bright kids will always cope.

howabout I think it is the job of families and schools to ensure that children are exposed to as much failure as success.

They should not be protected.

That, is the default status for the vast majority of human kind after all. And we survive. No one died of coming fourth in a spelling test. This is especially important when it comes to the academically able.

I consider it integral to my parenting to foster resilience. Far more important and useful than academic achievement.

Mum I am sure you are right. I am just pointing out that one shouldn't assume that the schools will care about your 10 year old's sporting prowess. I have heard that some do. But we visited 6, applied to 4 and found no sign of it. I have heard that two in our general area that we were not interested in for academic reasons do give sports scholarships so I agree it's possible.

As for learning to deal with not being number one all the time. Well, DD has now bumped up across that now, and to some degree this unpleasant experience is exactly what we are paying for! It's better to discover that there are people who can and will give you a run for your money at eleven than waiting till 18.

"I think some DC need more support than they currently get with this and it is a bit naive to assume bright kids will always cope."

Nobody is. What some people (me, for example) are saying is that bright supported kids will always cope.

And I'm with others on the resilience thing. A bit of failure and disappointment is a good thing. As is a bit of success and achievement!

Agreed SheGot but now that I have a very academically able DD of my own it is a HUGE challenge to find opportunities for her to fail without actively seeking out her weaknesses. I don't do this because I think playing to your strengths is a much more useful life lesson.

I agree playing to strengths is a good strategy. I am not actively embracing failure for DD. But I do think it is good for her to have the experience of struggling to get what she wants and realising that she is able to struggle and overcome. Rather than thinking that she either can do something straight away, or may as well just avoid it. Also, she now has more empathy for the children in primary who didn't like her because always got everything so easily. There is a difference between a theoretical understanding of how someone else must feel and "walking a mile in their shoes."

howto how hard can it be?

Surely your DC is not just naturally brilliant at everything from cross country to singing? Drama? Public speaking? Lacrosse? Pottery? Coding?

@settling: same like you I'd rather have my daughter at the bottom of the best class to learn and progress and compete with her excellent friends rather than opposite. We came from working background so we teach our daughter the same attitude, only achieve when work hard and never stop learning and try to mix with better people than yourself its the only place for you(well its my attitude doesnt mean its right for everyone but its the way I raise my children, unfortunately she sometimes takes it too seriously and being a little of perfectionist- which partially was my fault)