At what point is going private NOT worth it?

[lexlees]

I was chatting to a friend recently and we got chatting about schools. Their only daughter goes to a top private school and it is a real financial strain on them. They reckon they spend 40% of their net family income on school fees and extras. All her wages go towards the school fees and even then only covers 2/3 of it - the remaining third comes from her husband's salary.

From my perspective I don't see how it is worth it. She maintained that it is not unusual. They just want their child to have 'every advantage' because both she and her husband went private.

Their girl is bright but didn't qualify for any bursary or scholarship and failed to get into the selective state school (they did try all three). Although the girl was top of her class in her state primary, she now feels so much pressure because she hasn't gotten an 'A' in anything yet. She is now no longer the bright one and it took two terms to make friends. I'd love to say she is a lovely girl, but honestly, she is an ungrateful and mean brat (she used to beat up/be cruel to my ds every time they were alone - then lie about it - hence I don't bring my ds anymore to their house).

They are putting minimal money into pensions and have only 'one term's worth' of savings. They haven't had a holiday for two to three years, never eat out and hardly buy stuff (except for stuff for their daughter - so she doesn't feel 'left out' at school) as they have a mortgage as well. They also don't have parental financial support or expect much of any inheritance either. I feel like my friend has changed into some penny pinching miser, always working out how to save pennies and she is just worn out from a low paid job!

It got me wondering if other people are just making ends meet to send a child or children private. Is she correct that it is normal? At what point does it become NOT worth it.

SettlinginNicely - Greenleave I can relate to your every post. We are having very similar experiences.... Our local secondary options were not as good as primary

In that case you can't relate to Greenleave as they were also considering Tiffins. I think they would be stretching it a bit to claim their state secondaries are not as good as the primaries. However, as their DD excells in maths rather than English they will be up against very tough competition to get a place.

SettlinginNicely - 3. Private schools tell you that they have many new students joining them in year 7 from state primaries.

Actually, certainly in the area I live in, Bucks, Berks, Slough, Harrow and a fair number of other areas this is very true. Couldn't say it is true on a national level though.

In my area a fair number of them didn't score high enough in the 11 plus exam so it is their fall back option, hence the reason they are joining in year 7.

There appears to be a fair amount of movement at 6th form too.

SheGotAllDaMoves - kesstrel ... Off the top of my head;

You are aware that every one of the points you have made are applicable to both private and states sectors with the possible exception of "some schools simply refuse to engage with this"? Do you really think these issues are only present in state schools?

Please do take a look at the private schools at the lower levels of the (exclusive) private school leagues tables and tell me those schools are ticking all your boxes.

I can relate to her primary school experiences. I can relate to being foreign. I can relate to her considering selective options. If she doesn't get a place at Tiffins, that doesn't mean that she has to settle for whatever comp is on offer. She may choose to take advantage of the many excellent private secondaries in reach.

In trying to navigate a confusing system, I have found people offering their unvarnished experiences very helpful. I appreciate every single person who has given me their story.

SheGot I agree with most of your points wholeheartedly, but I have a couple of modifiers. (I am in Scotland so my standpoint is a bit different).

The MN options thread you refer to is a choice between a 2nd humanity and triple science. I think this is reasonable as there is quite a lot of overlap even between history and geography.

I am in 2 minds about the push for MFL. My DC are part French and so have a natural advantage. About 25% of their peer groups are bilingual. I am not sure that there is any point in making all children pursue MFL to GCSE in this context. I would far rather they all had the option to do Latin.

DD1 went through the options process last year and DD2 is about to do it now. I feel the balance has improved since I was at school.

On regional accents I have always found being Scottish an advantage in the professional sphere.

SheGotAllDaMoves I regularly visit the BBC up in Salford and the irony is that I'm usually the only one with a northern accent.

Is this a joke? With the exception of those on camera and the old school luvvies, the vast majority working in the BBC offices in Salford do not speak RP. You are aware that when they relocated a large number of people did not move with them (despite rather nice packages being offered) so if they haven't hired local residents who did they hire?

mum have you actually been to the BBC in Salford?

howabout the neglect of MFL in the past decade was shockingly xenophobic. It's quite right that having reared a generation of little Englanders the government now seeks to redress the balance somewhat.

Mum one thing that the independents can do which the state sector currently can't is to run minority subjects which may have only one or two takers.

*SheGotAllDaMoves - molio what I don't understand (and I'm not getting any closer to understanding, despite the number of state school visits I've made) is why some SLTs make decisions which are clearly against their pupils' interests.

It is baffling!*

Perhaps if you actually talked to the members of the SLT at any of the schools you frequent you might actually have a clue.

A HT and 14 of the teachers at my DCs primary schools (infant & junior) resigned at the end of the last school year. Why do you think that was?

SheGotAllDaMoves mum have you actually been to the BBC in Salford? yes I have and I also know people who decided not to relocate when they moved.

I also have a close relative who was one of the old school luvvies, now retired.

Well if you've been you will know that the majority of the people working there do not have typical local accents.

As a side issue, I am fascinated that you all know so many people who use RP. I hardly know any, and I am posh and old. I don't think I do myself nowadays, although I did at one stage.

Anyway. I would be very interested if somebody would list what they consider to be the "full range of academic and facilitating subjects" that schools should offer. I'm still not sure what's meant.

Mollo I do hear what you say about little Englanders and I am sure the amount of heather in the ears on my side of the border is in part a response to this. However the playground languages I most often hear are East European, Indian, African and Arabic. I did hear Portugese on the way to nursery this morning and most people I know with North African connections also speak French. My area is actually one of the least ethnically diverse around the City.

I am not an education expert, but ideally I would like to see language teaching embedded in primary schools as part of cross cultural awareness rather than as academic subjects. I am pleased the primary school DD3 will be attending now have French and Spanish lessons from P1 in line with the change in Scottish education policy. I would have been less pleased if it had been Gaelic.

Molio Mum one thing that the independents can do which the state sector currently can't is to run minority subjects which may have only one or two takers.

I think you will find a fair number of them can't and don't. There are people posting on the eleven plus web site about 6th form provision. One person who was asking about my local selective currently has a daughter at NLCS.

It is interesting the way comparrisons between sectors seem to be against the lower performing comps and the higher performing privates.

betrand that's why I said RP/MP. A kind of updated accent less version of 'well spoken' if you will ( though there are different versions of course).

It's very different to the local accent both in terms of pronunciation of certain sounds and (often) in phraseology.

@Settling: thank you so much fir sharing your story, I have been struggle to get any real experience shared as it appears like we are forbidden to talk about education during our school social drinks(well, relaxed, they are young they should only do gymnastic and swim etc, if you know what I mean). Then even worse I have couple of friends who I believe not fully sharing their true 11+ stories to me as their husband saying one thing and when I asked them they said their child only had little tutoring and relaxed, too early nothing to worry about as their child never did much when they were in year 3. Their husbands on the otherhand during a meet up said that the boy is now very stressed with few papers to do a day and tutoring from year 4

Now the thing is my daughter has never been stretched from school only opposite. So why she was slowed down, she wasnt in particularly talented or exceptional compare to many above than average then there could be only 2 answers: school is lazy and doesnt want to support much above average well behaved normal children and their standard is (very) low

I need to know the truth so I dont: be too late in coaching my child and extend her ability in maths and english. And at the sametime I wanted to avoid over doing it if she is ok.

I dont know the answer yet, I know she is ok academically for now but compare to other children'bench mark in selective or highly selective then she might be way too below

If then to all parents with children who used to be in state primary what was your 11+ preparation for your children who was successful in 11+ exams

SheGotAllDaMoves Well if you've been you will know that the majority of the people working there do not have typical local accents.

And you will also know that the vast majority do not speak RP.

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/secondary/2242988-Standard-of-French

This is a really interesting thread on the problems with MFL teaching. It is so depressing that my DD2 wasted 150 hours plus on "French" lessons with ineffective teaching. Things got somewhat better in Years 9-11, but because of no setting, too much emphasis on "fun" activities, and low expectations she still didn't learn much. Yet she loved Latin, precisely because it was intellectually demanding, and everyone in the class was prepared to work.

Mum I'm not making that comparison. Higher performing schools aren't in any way protected from the budgetary problems indeed they're suffering more than most.

BertrandRussell As a side issue, I am fascinated that you all know so many people who use RP.

I have to agree. The only people I've ever met that use RP are my relative and their DDs (old school BBC), a sales person at one of the companies I worked at, an IT help desk person I worked with and the head of marketing for Home House. I worked in marketing and PR for some years and yes there were plenty of posh accents but not what your would consider RP.

"It is interesting the way comparrisons between sectors seem to be against the lower performing comps and the higher performing privates."

But that's because many people are stuck with a lower-performing comp. But if someone has the money to go private, they will then normally have the ability to choose a good one, and if they choose wrongly, to move. Now, obviously if the difference between comp and private is based on the private having more resources, that's an unfair comparison. But we were talking about state schools choosing not to do things that are effective but that cost little money.

Hello, good morning folks.

I would like to add that I hav been to BBC Salford on a few occasions now and past the holding room a couple of times too as my dd recorded a programme there.
The people we met were mostly northern, because several parents commented on this.
There were also job opportunities within the company at several layers not just cooks, cleaners etc that you'd expect to be local.
Not one spoke posh as we say here.
That's not to say that some southerners didn't move.
I thought it was probably because they didn't like our flat caps and cobbled streets

howabout the provision for MFL must be aimed at those who aren't currently bilingual. The vast majority aren't and lucky those who are.

I'm not saying people moved.

There are plenty of well spoken northerners .

And when you speak to the producers, commissioning editors, writers, directors you won't hear many Salford accents.

When I'm in meetings I feel like an extra from Corrobation Street coca 1960z