Appeal to Superselective, prh47bridge or anyone with knowledge?

[pickledsiblings]

My DS sat for a Superselective GS in Sept and his results weren't stellar (although he did 'pass', doing equally well in English and maths on the papers). I therefore didn't apply for a place for him - he is at a middle school and can stay there for another year so I didn't need to apply for another school place.

On offer day (2 March) I was able to see that his result wasn't as 'bad' as I first thought based on the other results that were getting offers so I went ahead and made a late application. It was my intention to leave him on the waiting list for the coming year.

However, the more I have thought about things the more I realise that we may have a case for an appeal. There are 2 main issues:

1. DS changed school at the end of Y4 as that is the system here. There is evidence to show that progress is hampered during school transition. DS made v. little progress in Y5 but is now flying. Most other DC sitting the 11+ will not have experienced transition.

2. DS's school was in a state of turmoil last year as they didn't know what their fate would be as part of the school organisation review. Staff morale was at an all time low as it was uncertain whether or not they would remain part of an all though system and keep their jobs or move to a 2 tier system and lose them. This was only sorted out at the end of the school year last year.

I believe that both these factors played a part in DS not achieving his potential in the 11+ test.

Does anyone have any advice, success stories or otherwise to share? I'd love to hear your opinions. Am I mad to even consider appealing on these grounds?

Thank you.

As you didn't apply as part of the normal admissions round all you can do with these arguments is suggest that your so should have been higher up the waiting list (assuming they prioritise on scores) and therefore should have been awarded a place when one became available (assuming some people have got places through the waiting list). I would be amazed if an appeal panel accepted that. The school has not acted unreasonably.

Since you say your son passed the selection tests you don't need to get into arguments about his score (which you are unlikely to win). You already have proof that he is of the appropriate standard for grammar school. You therefore need to concentrate on why he will be disadvantaged if he doesn't attend this school. What is it this school offers that is missing from his current school and that will be of particular benefit to him.

Thank you so much for your response prh47bridge.

If it helps, the school is a superselective boys grammar in Essex. There is no catchment area for this particular school so the score is I guess the all important issue.

I'm not sure I understand your point about the school 'not acting unreasonably'. Is that a condition under which one can appeal? My appeal would be on the basis of non-qualification for the reasons stated. My DS did not qualify for a place at this school due to, I believe, a combination of the two factors I have listed.

By his current school do you mean the secondary school to which he will progress in a year?

My DS wants to be an engineer and the local schools in our area are struggling to recruit maths teachers. The GS has an unparalleled reputation for maths teaching. Also my DS is well qualified in drama and his current school offers no extra curricular opportunities at all in drama. The GS puts on plays etc. He is already working at Y9 level in science at home such is his interest in science and the local schools how ever well intentioned will be at too slow a pace for him. He is the only boy in his outstanding middle school aiming for L6s across the board so there is unlikely to be a decent-sized group of like ability peers at the high school. He has aspirations for himself that will be best met by the GS.

Are these the sorts of thing you mean? Also, to get the best education on offer my school has been attending an out of faith school and this has not necessarily impacted positively on him. It would be more suitable for him to attend a same faith school.

I would be grateful for any further advice you could offer.

The GS offers engineering at GCSE (other school does not). My DS is also a keen computer programmer and uses products like Scratch in his own time. The GS offers lessons on programming from Y7 whereas the local school doesn't offer anything regarding programming.

Pickled, in my area (not Essex) you can only appeal for schools that were on your original application. I would double check this.

Thanks Juggling. I called and asked about that exact thing this morning and was told that my appeal would be considered along with the other on time application appeals.

Essentially you are in the same position as everyone who passed the test who is on the waiting list. The school is full; it doesn't matter at this point what his score is, the school is full.

You can't appeal on the grounds that if you had made an on-time application he would have got in. You didn't, so he didn't, nothing went wrong in the process - which is why PRH said the school hadn't acted unreasonably. Places were awarded to those to applied on time and now the school is full. The reasons why you thought he would score lower than he did are irrelevant.

An appeal at this stage will only be won by proving that the detriment to him to not being at the school will be higher than the detriment to the school to admitting. So what does the grammar offer that is conspicuously different to the school he has been allocated, and why does it suit him specifically? Things like the programming lessons, for example, would come in here.

Our situation is slightly different in that he hasn't been offered another school as he must stay where he is for another year. Should I base the appeal on what his current school offers or the school he will move on to from Y8? I'm guessing the latter but as that school hasn't been allocated yet it's sort of guess work as to which school it will be.

Thank you Patricia for your explanation.

If you are talking about CRGS, then worth going onto the 11plus site because they can advise very specifically on the chances of succeeding at appeal (my impression is very, very low).

If your sons score is close to that being admitted he will go near the top of the waiting list. Given the movement, more likely to get in through that.

Do not forget that they have 4 places for entrance in year 9 (with exams in year 8) so he could try then.

If your son is at middle school then presumably you are in mid or north west Suffolk? I had understood the state schools in Bury to be pretty good- is that not the case?

I haven't been there myself but appeals for the Essex grammar schools are renowned for being extremely hard to win. I am aware of only two successful appeals to CRGS in the last 5 years or so. There is a thread on the 11 plus forum essex section that is probably worth a read.
www.elevenplusexams.co.uk/forum/11plus/viewtopic.php?f=15&t=19293

Re CRGS year nine intake, I would not count on that continuing in the future. In the past the school started with 3 classes of 32 and then took in 4 additional pupils in year 9, making an extra class so they had 4 classes of 25. This septembers intake is the first to start with 4 classes of 30, many of the classrooms are not large enough for the bigger class sizes, so I think it unlikely that they will still have a year 9 intake except to fill any places if someone has left. 4 classes of 31 would be a very strange size!

justice the schools in Bury are OK but not great. They are struggling to recruit maths teachers. The staff tend to turn a blind eye to certain misdemeanours and there is too much eating/drinking in classrooms etc. Many of the students are disaffected and those that aren't struggle to achieve in a climate of disruption. That's in one particular school that I know well, our catchment one!

Thanks for the 11+ forum steer, lots of good info on there.

Thanks tiggy.

I see what you mean about oversubscription rather than non-qualification. Presumably anyone that didn't get a high enough mark could appeal then.

And I'm aware that you are appealing for a school rather than against another.

As to why only that school meets his needs and interests, is it OK to site DS's academic ability as a factor? He's not gifted or anything but he is at the top of his year group. DS is more likely to reach his potential in an academic environment. It is only since working on the level 6 stuff that DS has come into his own and outshone his peers.

I would love some advice on how to frame an appeal if anyone has any.

neither point 1 in your OP not point 2 would hold any water here, in fact, would just be laughed out of court!

You need specific reasons your DC should attend that specific school. Be succinct. Don't waffle. Certainly don't refer to changing schools (irrelevant,) or low staff moral/ school reorganisation (universal). Better to refer to special needs, medical needs, etc.

Keep in mind that many primary schools do no 11+ preparation at all, quite deliberately, to ensure that results are based on ability, not time spent on it in school. Otherwise it just becomes a competition between schools on who can drop the most curriculum work to dedicated the most time to the 11+.

So anything you say about the quality of his primary schooling just looks like casting round for someone to blame, when in fact the institute you are blaming SHOULD have had no influence on his grade.

I can't speak for the rest of the country, but certainly this is the case for the SE

I have sat on appeals panels. ( not recently) I promise you every school in the country is deeply infected by constant reorganisations, low staff moral, and staffing issues.

Thanks again TIggy.

I get what you are saying. Part of me feels why should my son get a place above others who are on the waiting list; it feels morally wrong to appeal. I'd be more comfortable appealing that his score could have been higher if it wasn't for the mitigating circumstances I've mentioned. He is into the raspberry pi and they have a raspberry pi club at the GS. But how could I evidence his interest? I could be just making it up.

He really wants to go to the GS, mainly because he likes challenging work and peers to compete with. Also they put on a great play each year (he is on grade 6 drama and has done NONE at his middle school).

I would like to see him settled at the beginning of a key stage rather than having to move again half way though KS3 as we have already observed the effects of that move. Is there any way I could work that in to an appeal?

Thanks for your insight Charis 1.

DS doesn't have any special needs or medical needs.

He is very aspirational for himself and has already decided what he wants to study at Uni, what Uni is best to go to and he has identified (with my help) that statistically speaking, the GS is his best chance of getting there.

Is engineering a proper GCSE?

The Essex grammar schools do not have a pass mark (303 only applies to the Southend schools) so I would have thought that you are appealing on non-qualification, as he did not achieve the cut off score.

You need to prove why your son is suitable for this school, not why others are less suitable.

Look at the elevenplusexams.co.uk website. They have lots of useful advice for appeals.

Tiggy, I really appreciate you taking the time to answer my questions. My main worry is that DS will coast along unless he is in a challenging environment. He reads lots and lots, fiction and non fiction and is very well informed about many things. He is also very philosophical and mature in his thinking. Another year at middle school, having sat the level 6 papers will be counterproductive for him I'm sure. My DD is in Y9 (in a selective school) and he is desperate to know what she's doing in school and he has a go at her science homeworks - for fun!

I wish GSs interviewed like they did in my day.

Essexmum, that was my thinking originally but now I'm not sure.

Rivercam the school is very academic, my DS is very academic, that is it in a nutshell. I fear that's not enough as most of the other boys on the waiting list will also be academic.

Son is currently in an RC school (chosen because it is the most academic middle school) but he would prefer to be educated in a non RC school. The most academic state high school is also RC, unfortunately for DS. Can I make anything of that do you think? GS ethos accords broadly with Christian values.

So, I'm still thinking about this and I realise that I don't really understand the purpose of the appeals process.

Our son desperately wants to go to this school, we think he is bright enough and academic enough, he didn't do as well as he could have on the day of the test (for a number of reasons), that's it!!

Is there even anything to appeal?