Appeal to Superselective, prh47bridge or anyone with knowledge?

[pickledsiblings]

My DS sat for a Superselective GS in Sept and his results weren't stellar (although he did 'pass', doing equally well in English and maths on the papers). I therefore didn't apply for a place for him - he is at a middle school and can stay there for another year so I didn't need to apply for another school place.

On offer day (2 March) I was able to see that his result wasn't as 'bad' as I first thought based on the other results that were getting offers so I went ahead and made a late application. It was my intention to leave him on the waiting list for the coming year.

However, the more I have thought about things the more I realise that we may have a case for an appeal. There are 2 main issues:

1. DS changed school at the end of Y4 as that is the system here. There is evidence to show that progress is hampered during school transition. DS made v. little progress in Y5 but is now flying. Most other DC sitting the 11+ will not have experienced transition.

2. DS's school was in a state of turmoil last year as they didn't know what their fate would be as part of the school organisation review. Staff morale was at an all time low as it was uncertain whether or not they would remain part of an all though system and keep their jobs or move to a 2 tier system and lose them. This was only sorted out at the end of the school year last year.

I believe that both these factors played a part in DS not achieving his potential in the 11+ test.

Does anyone have any advice, success stories or otherwise to share? I'd love to hear your opinions. Am I mad to even consider appealing on these grounds?

Thank you.

Thanks for sharing that IDK. I'm pleased that your DS's results improved after receiving the diagnosis. Why is that do you think? Was he allowed extra time? Did you ever consider appealing for a GS place for him?

The paper this year was different than in previous years (less about speed of processing) but there is still quite a time constraint.

If I can prove that he is in the top 5% of the ability range at his current high achieving middle school, will that be enough for an appeal panel?

We started an appeal but didn't pursue it because he got a place elsewhere, that he preferred, on a scholarship. Unfortunately this alternate school didn't think to question why their scholarship lad never seemed to fulfill his potential.
His diagnosis meant that he got an extra 25% time in exams. He needs this as he has to re-read about half the sentences he comes across (eg exam papers!) before he retains their meaning.

If I can prove that he is in the top 5% of the ability range at his current high achieving middle school, will that be enough for an appeal panel?
Be careful of what you submit as evidence. I know that our Grammar effectively shrugged its shoulders at other evidence and said that they relied on their evidence i.e. the entrance test as per the rules of the application process. They are vastly oversubscribed and the number of pupils between a score of just-made-it and just-missed-it can be in the hundreds i.e. a whole year cohort. They have to be really mean efficient in weeding out appeals because they have already filled all places and don't want to go over PAN.

It may be that your best bet is to show that their test results are not representative of his abilities because proper adjustment for an undiagnosed LD (eg extra time) was not made.
But I'm not an expert. Listen to them first!

If I can prove that he is in the top 5% of the ability range at his current high achieving middle school, will that be enough for an appeal panel?

You said that your son passed the entrance test. He is therefore of the required academic standard. You don't need to prove anything more about his ability. You didn't apply so you cannot argue that he would have been given a place if he had a higher score. Whether or not the score was a fair reflection of his abilities therefore makes no difference. It was good enough to mean he passed. That is all that matters.

Your argument is that your son will be disadvantaged if he doesn't go to this school. That is the only argument you need to make.

prh47bridge, I have come to realise that there is no real pass or fail mark for superselectives. Does that not matter? .

My son will be disadvantaged if he doesn't go to this school.
My son will be disadvantaged if he doesn't go to this school.
My son will be disadvantaged if he doesn't go to this school.

The more I think about things and look into things the crosser I'm getting. My DS's most recent SAT result from school was 90% (this is typical for him) yet he only scored 63% on his 11+ maths test. Either DS had a complete blank on the day or the test is not testing what it is supposed to (it is supposed to be based on KS2 of the National Curriculum).

Can I do/say anything about this?

I think there's some uncertainty about the pass mark for that particular grammar OP. Is there a pass mark or not? If there is and he passed then you do not need to prove he is of grammar ability. But I'm not sure you have said there is a pass mark?

"My DS's most recent SAT result from school was 90% .... yet he only scored 63% on his 11+ maths test .... it is supposed to be based on KS2 of the National Curriculum."
Don't forget that your ds sat his 11+ maths exam back in September and unless his school set him extension work during Year 5 then he wouldn't have covered the whole of KS2 at that stage. Does he score 90% on the Level 3-5 papers or the Level 6 papers? If Level 3-5 then he is probably very good at maths but not exceptional (a Level 5a) - my ds' prep school use SATs papers for internal assessment only and won't allow dc with less than 95% on Level 3-5 to try the Level 6 papers. Also, 11+ exams are much more time pressured than SATs (and more stressful) and dc are liable to make more errors or not finish the paper in time. Did he practice any maths in the summer holidays before the 11+? If not, then that would be another reason he scored much lower.

There is no pass mark, scores are rank ordered and pupils are admitted on the basis of their mark.

My DS's result wasn't high enough to be awarded a place, so it's sort of like non-qualification. He should have done better, particularly in maths.

His English result came out better than his maths (and the English paper was harder than the maths by comparison plus he is weaker in English than maths) so something definitely went wrong for him in the maths paper.

This is sooo the right school for my son - I've just been reading his Y2/3/4 school reports and all the qualities he displays are those that the school holds in esteem.

Thanks for your reply Clavinova. I would agree with you that he is not exceptional at maths but he only needed to achieve 75% in the 11+ maths paper to automatically win a place.

He has scored 100% the odd time in the level 3-5 papers. I don't think he's done a level 6 paper yet.

No maths practice in the Summer holidays, bad idea in retrospect.

If there is no pass mark that puts things in a slightly different light. If there were fewer applicants than places this school would admit them all regardless of their performance. So it can be argued that performance in the entrance test is irrelevant. However, in this case if you can argue that your son did not perform at his best in the tests on the day and can identify reasons for it, it may be worth making that argument with any supporting evidence you have. You should still concentrate on why this is the right school for him, though.

Thanks prh47bridge.

Just had a letter from his Headteacher that identifies him as 6th out of 109 for maths, 10th for English and somewhere in the top 5 for science. This is an outstanding middle school (the highest achieving in the area). Head also confirmed that he is the only pupil to be entered for all three Level 6 papers.

Are these positions good enough for a superselective?

Tbh without knowing how his classmate would score no one, including an appeal panel can tell whether his rank in his school is enough. External tests, the sats for instance, would be much better id have thought. Can he do a mock L6 paper quickly?

unfortunately if you are talking about CRGS or KEGS I dont think that would make any difference. In my experience many of the kids who did not secure a place where equally, if not more able. You would need absolutely bomb proof evidence of why your DS under performed. These two schools are notoriously difficult to appeal based on test scores. your best, and in my opinion, only chance is to prove that your DS will be disadvantaged by not attending. which in reality is very difficult. My own DD narrowly missed out (along with about 900 other girls) on a place at Colchester grammar. she's now in year 9 at a very highly regarded comp and is consistently placed in the top 10 out of a cohort of 220 students. Would be very hard to argue, beyond my own preferences, that she has suffered by not attending the super selective.

On the plus side I have this quote: "Teacher X judges DS to be very capable in Science, having a vast background knowledge".

So is anyone prepared to say whether or not we should go for the appeal given the information that I have posted here?

All opinions most welcome. Especially from those of you that know the school.

drivinmecrazy I'm pleased that you are happy with how things have turned out for your DD. That gives me hope.

Our situation is slightly different in that DS will stay at middle school for another year. He is desperate to move on and get his teeth into something more. He wants to study separate sciences and Latin and another MfL besides French etc.

to give you more hope, DDs school does all of the above. 2 languages compulsory til yr10, triple sciences and Latin. I can see your quandary though. seems somewhat daft that some regions have middle schools and others straightforward yr7 entry. it's absolutely worth appealing. We did for DDs place at her comp. We based our appeal on the languages angle, DD was already proficient in Spanish and french, whereas her allocated school didn't cover spanish and french was not an option til year 8. Our appeal failed but by some miracle she got a place off the waiting list 2 weeks into year 7. Be realistic but don't give up. It can all work out well in the end. After all if we don't fight for our DC no one else will. I have no regrets about appealing but I'm sure I would have had I not!

An appeal is a one way bet. If you win your child gets a place. If you lose you are in exactly the same position as if you hadn't appealed. I would therefore always encourage anyone thinking of appealing to go ahead regardless of the merits of their case. If nothing else you can be satisfied that you have left no stone unturned.

I honestly don't think you have said anything on here that could not be said by many other applicants who just missed out on a place. However, I agree that you have nothing to lose by appealing and think you should do so for your own peace of mind.

It sounds like there are around 10 or so other children at his current school around the same level. Do you know where there are headed and if they feel similarly frustrated?

Augusta they will no doubt disperse to one of the 3 high schools in the town at the end of next year. No idea what their aspirations are or if they are similarly frustrated.

I agree with you about the other applicants. There are already 14 appeals lodged so on we go with the competition...

So, we are going to go ahead and appeal. I am going to include information from DS's junior school (written reports that highlight his creativity etc) including his L3s at KS1 and mention that he is entered for all 3 level 6 papers at his current school and on track to achieve these. I think that will probably be enough info in terms of ability.

We most likely won't include info from his current Headteacher as it doesn't read particularly well and isn't internally consistent. I suppose it's not really in their interest to promote DS as they will want to hang on to him for another year.

The rest of the appeal will focus on why this is the right school for DS. I'm fairly confident that we can build a case around this but coming up with the evidence will be difficult.

If anyone has some last minute comments or advice that would be great. Thanks again to all of you for helping me to think this through.

Sorry, havn't read the whole thread, but the elevenplus exams forum has a whole section on Appeals of every conceivable kind! Read their extensive FAQ section first. Good luck.

I'm confused as to whether you actually listed the grammar school as one of your choices on the application?

Thanks for explaining things tiggy

TheWildRumpyPumpus Our situation is slightly different than most of the other applicants in that I was not under any pressure to apply for a school place at all in 2015/16 as DS is at a middle school and will stay there for Y7.

I'm back to thinking I should just submit the Headteacher's letter, warts and all, and let the panel decide on DS's ability. If current SAT's marks are anything to go on, it looks like DS is the best all rounder academically in his current school (Maths/English/Science). If the GS is not for boys like him, just who is it for??

This particular school used to test for VR and they stopped this year. I let DS do a past paper on VR and he could do it no problem. I also bought an NVR book for him to try and after 2 papers he was scoring > 85%, it just came naturally to him. I think this is evidence of his academic ability being of the level suitable but I can't evidence any of this.

Help!!