Appeal to Superselective, prh47bridge or anyone with knowledge?

[pickledsiblings]

My DS sat for a Superselective GS in Sept and his results weren't stellar (although he did 'pass', doing equally well in English and maths on the papers). I therefore didn't apply for a place for him - he is at a middle school and can stay there for another year so I didn't need to apply for another school place.

On offer day (2 March) I was able to see that his result wasn't as 'bad' as I first thought based on the other results that were getting offers so I went ahead and made a late application. It was my intention to leave him on the waiting list for the coming year.

However, the more I have thought about things the more I realise that we may have a case for an appeal. There are 2 main issues:

1. DS changed school at the end of Y4 as that is the system here. There is evidence to show that progress is hampered during school transition. DS made v. little progress in Y5 but is now flying. Most other DC sitting the 11+ will not have experienced transition.

2. DS's school was in a state of turmoil last year as they didn't know what their fate would be as part of the school organisation review. Staff morale was at an all time low as it was uncertain whether or not they would remain part of an all though system and keep their jobs or move to a 2 tier system and lose them. This was only sorted out at the end of the school year last year.

I believe that both these factors played a part in DS not achieving his potential in the 11+ test.

Does anyone have any advice, success stories or otherwise to share? I'd love to hear your opinions. Am I mad to even consider appealing on these grounds?

Thank you.

Does your DD feel that she is being suitably challenged at her Comp then? I have a DD the same age as yours who is at a selective school and the work that she is doing is streets ahead of what the DC in the top set at our local Comp are doing.

Pickled

I think people are saying by all means appeal and cite any evidence you like as to the ability of your son, but that others who just missed places are probably of similar standard. They might not be appealing though!

You also vary between him having passed and him having missed the pass mark by 4 points so that's a bit confusing?

Also, the middle school set up could give you a waiting list advantage as many pupils will start somewhere else in September and may not bother to stay on the list once they are settled in secondary; you can stay on for a whole longer.

He passed if you consider the pass mark from a subset of GSs however the superselectives don't have a pass mark, they have a cut off. He was 4 marks away from that cut off.

Yes Yonic, I thought that too except the waiting list is only held until the end of the Autumn term.

Oh what do they do if someone leaves?

we didn't appeal the grammar place cos we had no grounds. by 'get over it' I mean both. Appeal so you know you have exhausted every avenue then move on knowing you left non stone unturned. I admit I am very fortunate with my DDs comp. She's yr 9 in top sets across the board. I can safely say that her groups are working at GCSE grade a/b at the moment. Her school is extremely good at setting well. She is also very fortunate that her friends are at least as able as she is. there is a very healthy level of competition with her peers. Infact on hindsight, seeing some of her friends who are at Colchester, I think DD has a better balance in her life of social and academic. Difficult to be sure, but I think I'm happier she has ended up where she has. Yes I wish she would put in that extra 5% but you know what? I bet if she was at the super selective I would stillbbe wishing for an extra 5%. DD is such a happy, humorous, intelligent sassy 14 year old, I'm positive she will do well and find her way where ever she goes to school

After the end of the autumn term prospective pupils can apply to go onto the "continuing interest list". If a place comes up then an exam is arranged for those on the list and the place will be awarded to the highest scorer, provided they meet a minimium standard.

I live in a superselective area and as a result many children receive tuition to take grammar school tests. In my son's school (60 intake) a large number of kids are taking L6 papers, and many will achieve it (eg in last year I have stats for about 20 kids got L6 maths).
I think you may be overestimating your son's ability in relation to the general population of kids applying to the grammar. In addition if he has 'speed of processing' issues then would that be the best place for him.
There will be plenty those L6 pupils who do not get into the grammar and working back at 2 sublevels a year they would have been 4A in Y4.

drivin, I'm pleased to hear your DD's story, especially this:
I think DD has a better balance in her life of social and academic.

This is what I think may be the up side of DS going to the Comp.

Essexmum I'll have to get DS's name down on that list :).

Sutton thanks for the info. It's very possible that I am overestimating DS's ability in that respect. It's very difficult for me to know. An appeals panel will know obviously.

as I said up thread, one of the positives about living in or near a super selective area is that there are plenty of extremely bright kids who take up places at local comps. What are your catchment schools like?

After you said that drivin I had a look at the GCSE league tables for 2014 and was very surprised to see that the Comp that DS will most likely go to comes out on top of all the Essex schools. How can that be then?

Alot happens to a child between yr7 & yr11, many influencing factors. As I previously quoted my DD, an A is stil an A whichever school it derives from. I'll bore you with another anicdote about my DD. She's an extremely gifted dancer, and against my better judgement, she has just taken her options. she's chosen Dance as her 'fun' GCSE. she's fully aware that the teaching and testing she will go through are nowhere near her level of dance but she has her classes outside of school so what does it matter? she's gaining the levels and experience elsewhere. I'm sure if your DS is intent on an engineering path he will find ways of fulfilling his dream. BTW my DDs dreams have changed many times over the years, we've gone from marine biologist to geologist to tattoo artist to psychologist. Currently she is racing through her Padi diving qualifications (spend all school holidays at family home in Spain, lucky girl) with the aim to eventually become a dive instructor, ballet teacher and tatto artist and travel the world! Point being the best we can give our kids is the opportunity to discover themselves and the world around them. Far more important than what school they will attend

She sounds fantastic drivin, it's wonderful that she has so many talents. DS wants to be a robotics engineer - who knows how long he'll keep on with that? DH knew what he wanted to be at DS's age and then went ahead and did it! My DD has no idea...

I don't know anything about grammar schools ( clicked on the thread by mistake and then got interested!) but one thing I will say is that your ds wants to go to Cambridge and he has worked out that he has a better chance statistically of going from the grammar school.

Remember that statistics are funny things!

I think that you said 30 out of 120 got into Oxbridge. But how many applied to the school to be one of the 120? And how many didn't apply because they knew they weren't good enough? Because really it is 30 out of all these people. Which makes the odds a lot less good.....

DD2 (9) wants to be a cleaner at Tesco. she gets wildly excited when she hears over the tannoy 'can the in store cleaner go to aisle 3'. We have to go and watch. she got doubly excited when I told her if she worked really hard at school she might be able to go to cleaning college

I would be really interested in how many of the school's own pupils as opposed to those who join in the sixth form get Oxbridge offers. Perhaps someone reading will know.

Love that drivin!

Could you use the speaker on your smart phone to get her excited about cleaning at home?

Don't you think that the higher levels of applicants are as much down to parents and family than the school? Might be generalising but many parents who put their kids in for 11+ are very involved in their child's education, and maybe have a higher than average attainment level themselves? thus growing up in a home where such opportunities are presented anyway. DDs school has about 6 succesful oxbridge applicants a year, and many more RG students. though the 6th form is fairly selective as it serves a wider catchment as the only 6th form within the near area

We had to buy her a Henrietta hoover for her 6th birthday cos she didn't rate our Dyson she's desperate for a steam cleaner for her next brithday

Having read the whole thread and with ds1 at the super selective in our borough, I would suggest that his not gaining a place was probably down to processing speed. Grammars are not just looking for inate ability, I would suppose many, many children on the waiting list are of a similar ability to those that were offered a place. However, it is the ability to process information at a very quick pace which probably put some children above others. You say quick processing is not your son's strong point, have you considered how he might cope in an environment which certainly offers depth and breadth, but done at a very quick pace?

Judging by the number of girls in CRGSs annual Oxbridge offers photo, I would say the external entry sixth formers make up a lot of the Oxbridge offers. My sons friends who joined the school in year 12 all have A* at GCSE in double figures, so the standard of the sixth form is, I think, actually higher than the lower school.
Depending on how far West in Suffolk you are, Hills Road Sixth Form in Cambridge would be worth considering if Cambridge is his aim. It was the best ranked state sixth form for Oxbridge offers. I think it gives priority to certain feeder secondaries, so would need to be planned in advance.

I would also make the point that 4 marks below the last mark admitted for every paper, though it sounds like a small margin, may represent a huige number of applicants.

Think of a bell curve - 11+ marks usually follow an approximate bell curve shape, though obviously truncated at the top end, because it is not possible to get more than 100%. For a superselective, the cut-off point will come on the higher 'downward' slope of the bell curve - depending on the exam and the school, it can come very near the tail or rather higher up. Then draw another line 4 marks below the average pass mark per paper - it is usually MUCH higher up the bell curve, representing many, many more pupils. Depending on the exact shape of the curve, there may actually be more children in that 4 mark gap than there were admitted to the school!

The Kent test, with 23-25% passing, is actually much worser from that point of view, because the pass / fail mark comes so far within the body of the bell curve, so a difference of a single mark can represent 100s of children.

I have checked this years Maths paper for you, there wasn't any questions on probability, certainly not 4 marks worth, so dont try that argument. You can buy unused copies of the papers he sat from the CSSE, this might help you work out where he struggled. Looking at the paper, I would say it was fairly low level with regards to mathematical concepts but contained alot of mathematical reasoning. There was also a lot of questions for the time allowed, so if your son has a problem working at speed, that may have been the issue rather than the difficulty.
The reading comprehension was horrid! The creative writing topics were straightforward but no mark scheme is available so we do not know exactly what they were looking for.