Appeal to Superselective, prh47bridge or anyone with knowledge?

[pickledsiblings]

My DS sat for a Superselective GS in Sept and his results weren't stellar (although he did 'pass', doing equally well in English and maths on the papers). I therefore didn't apply for a place for him - he is at a middle school and can stay there for another year so I didn't need to apply for another school place.

On offer day (2 March) I was able to see that his result wasn't as 'bad' as I first thought based on the other results that were getting offers so I went ahead and made a late application. It was my intention to leave him on the waiting list for the coming year.

However, the more I have thought about things the more I realise that we may have a case for an appeal. There are 2 main issues:

1. DS changed school at the end of Y4 as that is the system here. There is evidence to show that progress is hampered during school transition. DS made v. little progress in Y5 but is now flying. Most other DC sitting the 11+ will not have experienced transition.

2. DS's school was in a state of turmoil last year as they didn't know what their fate would be as part of the school organisation review. Staff morale was at an all time low as it was uncertain whether or not they would remain part of an all though system and keep their jobs or move to a 2 tier system and lose them. This was only sorted out at the end of the school year last year.

I believe that both these factors played a part in DS not achieving his potential in the 11+ test.

Does anyone have any advice, success stories or otherwise to share? I'd love to hear your opinions. Am I mad to even consider appealing on these grounds?

Thank you.

In what way is the 11+ unfair and not a level playing field?

All children will "underachieve" in the actual exam, be nervous, be alone, etc. No one will get the same mark there than they would at home at the kitchen table.

Passing level 6 does not put a child in the top 1%. Roughly 10% of children take it, and many more could, but don't. Some schools don't use it at all, and some parents don't want their children entered. So passing level 6 puts him roughly in the top 15-20%. This is high enough for some grammar schools though, so you could apply to others, and have his name put on the waiting list.

he will need recommendations from his current secondary school when he starts in year 7. When I worked in secondary moderns, we were asked for this a lot. Sometimes about a quarter of students were appealing for grammar school places. ( not necessarily the top quarter!) We were asked about academic ability across the range.

Just one little point, make sure your DS knows exactly what is meant by "engineering", what the different types are, and what type he is interested in, you would not believe the number of young people who apply, but can't then answer those questions!

Charis1 My level 6 reference was specifically with respect to the boys reading results. You do have a fair point though that not all schools offer it and that some students that are capable don't take it.

jess, I say the system is corrupt because it doesn't necessarily select the brightest. To use your analogy, the over-tutored student is a bit like an Olympic medal winner who takes steroids to enhance their performance.

Tutoring only gets you so far in the 11+. You can practice understanding the questions. It can't really help you if you can't work out the answers. I know people talk about tutoring a lot, but in practice I know very few children in grammar school who were tutored. Mine certainly weren't. They practised a few papers at home with me, but anyone can d that with their kids, there are oodles of papers free on line.

There is good evidence that shows that a middle school education has a negative impact on KS2 SATs results. It was the main driver for the scrapping of middle schools in the region.

That being said, DS is still on track for L6s. That says something does it not?

But you bought into the system when you put your DS forward for the test
It's beginning to sound a little like sour grapes now. If I Were a parent of a successful applicant I would feel quite offended that you are suggesting that their son, who put in the hard work and gained a place, is less than deserving of your son because he has an interest in engineering. He wasn't as good as others on the day
Those are the rules you signed up for. Why not teach your DS that he can work hard and achieve his goal at a comp, and stop implying that he will not suceed in his goal because of one test on one day

middle school education has no effect what so ever.

One last comment, I promise I still think you should go ahead and appeal because you will then know you have done everything possible to help your DS, then move on
My DD scored on the top 200 out of 900+ girls who sat for Chelmsford, I was so proud of her for all the hard work she put in. She was able to hold her head up high and move on. I hope your DS can do the same

Charis1

middle school education has no effect what so ever

On what?

It most definitely does have an effect on KS2 SATs results for a number of reasons, not the least of which is moving schools half way through a key stage. My DS went to a school from Y5 where he knew no one and the teachers knew nothing of him.

Contrast that with staying in the same school with all your friends and teachers who know you well and know how you learn best. teachers who are geared up to teach the KS2 curriculum using the same consistent approach year on year.

that is just rubbish, pickledsiblings, you are really scraping the barrel if you are trying to claim this is why your DS did not get into grammar school.

If you want him in grammar school, put his name on the waiting list of as many as you can.

Couldn't resist another comment. Most of the SATs work is done in yr5 & 6. Interesting if there are statistics to back up your hypothesis though. Hearsay isn't usually well regarded at appeals I would imagine.

There are statistics drivin, the local authority used them in their case for getting rid of the middle schools. They won!!

However (and they didn't use this info) it does all even out by the time the students get to GCSE level where there are only marginal differences in KS4 grades in subjects like English and science (iirc).

Charis1 this is the only GS near enough to us, no choice of any others.

I think you might need to accept that your DS just isn't as academically outstanding as you would like him to be. He didn't pass the 11+, he didn't get the bursary you wanted, he is not top of the school in any subject according to his current teachers. He is clearly a bright boy who is doing perfectly well in his current school. I don't think you're doing him any favours with this desperate hunt for reasons for his 'underperformance'.

Charis1 the most likely reason why DS didn't do better in the GS test is that he hadn't covered all the maths that the paper tested. We did some practice papers and I explained some new concepts to him as we encountered them but he wasn't drilled in them as he would have been had he studied them at school.

I don't understand your point, pickledsiblings. Most schools don't drill in 11+ concepts. Many schools round here do no preparation at all. otherwise it would be a competition between schools, and get in the way of teachingthe actal curriculum, wouldn't it. It would only take an afternoon for you to cover all the concepts yourself with him, anyway, and if he can't remember them in an exam, that is the whole point. that is what the exam isthere to find out.

what do you mean by too far away? You mention the one you want is a 40 minute bus ride.

I'm just being practical, OP, your DS didn't pass the 11+, by quite some margin. That doesn't mean he can't eventually get into a grammar school, but maybe be a little more realistic and flexible. You have not given any real evidence that he has underachieved at all, or that he has been treated unfairly or disadvantaged.

Charis1 the 11+ papers are supposed to be aligned with the KS2 NC (level 5) so I'm not sure what you mean by 11+ concepts.

DS was introduced to probability at school for the first time last week in his L6 maths class. If DS was unable to do the probability question on the 11+ test, that could account for the 4 marks he lost.

Some students will have been tutored in the concepts needed others will have been prepared by their prep school, some schools will have prepared them and of course some students like DS will have done nothing at all.

We live semi-rurally so our nearest schools (state) are either a 30 minute bus ride away or this one GS in a neighbouring county that is a 40 minute bus ride away.

My brain hurts from thinking about it all. Thanks everyone for your continued contributions, I appreciate them.

still don't get why you are blaming the school for not preparing your ds for the 11+. surely that was your job! Did anyone else from his school pass? Not that that is particularly relevant, many schools don't have anyone pass.

My DC attend a grammar school, it is our nearest, and over an hour away. if you want DS in a grammar school, maybe you could look a bit further? where would he have gone if he had passed the 11+, but not got into the superselective?

Charis1 Not blaming anyone . The GS is not on anyone's radar around here as the schools on offer are considered good.

He passed but we can't realistically get to any other GS.

Unfortunately you will not win an appeal on the basis that your son was not prepared as well as others who took the exam.

CRGS is not an grammar school suited to bright but underachieving boys. In my experience most of the boys are extremely self motivated, high achievers who seem immune to stress! It is not as nuturing as the girls school in my experience and I, with hindsight, would not choose it again for a boy who under performs or is stressed in exams.
Appeal, by all means, but given that your son can stay put for two years, at least you have time to thoroughly research other secondary options to support his future.

Essexmum DS is very self motivated and has accumulated a lot of knowledge outside of school (eg he has taught himself computer programming). His underachievement is based on under-stimulation I think rather than any particular issues with exam stress. He is doing Grade 6 drama and has coped fine with his exams in that just fine thus far.

He can only stay put for one more year as the system is phasing in a change so his KS3 curriculum will also be disrupted - the joy!

My DD is at a school that is not known for nurturing their students and it suits her fine. My DC generally aren't that needy in school. That is another reason why I'm convinced that this particular school is right for DS.

I'm sorry to hear that you would not choose the school again. Was your experience of the school not a good one or are you speaking from the perspective of someone else?

Another bit of data that I have towards DS's ability is that his reading age when measured in Y4 was 4 years ahead of his chronological age. Is that typical to all that apply for a GS place?

Sorry for all the questions but we are a bit in the dark to some extent because we are not living in a GS area.

will you please listen to what people are saying! ! FYI my DDs reading age in yr 4 was 15, so what? !?! I'm going to be blunt. I think you are doing your DS a great disservice by obsessing about this. Get over it, I bet your DS has, or are you filling his head with ideas that he's worthy but it's the rest of the world that's not? Again I will say on the day he was not good enough. If you had really expected all test subjects would be covered on school then you were extremely naive. For future reference the Essex exam covers subjects only generally completed by the end of yr 6, hence parents prepare or tutor. Thems the fact! how you didn't know this is ridiculous. Please do your son a favour, hug him, tell him he's great and move on!!

My lovely comp educated super selective failing DD has just reminded me that when she was 11 her reading was assessed as a reading age of 18 years and 7 months

I am listening drivin

Sorry if the reading age thing is irrelevant, that was my question really. You could have just said it's not relevant.

By get over it do you mean don't appeal or just get on with it and appeal?

I take your point about him not being good enough on the day but isn't that what appeals are for? Did you appeal for a GS place for your DD?