Appeal to Superselective, prh47bridge or anyone with knowledge?

[pickledsiblings]

My DS sat for a Superselective GS in Sept and his results weren't stellar (although he did 'pass', doing equally well in English and maths on the papers). I therefore didn't apply for a place for him - he is at a middle school and can stay there for another year so I didn't need to apply for another school place.

On offer day (2 March) I was able to see that his result wasn't as 'bad' as I first thought based on the other results that were getting offers so I went ahead and made a late application. It was my intention to leave him on the waiting list for the coming year.

However, the more I have thought about things the more I realise that we may have a case for an appeal. There are 2 main issues:

1. DS changed school at the end of Y4 as that is the system here. There is evidence to show that progress is hampered during school transition. DS made v. little progress in Y5 but is now flying. Most other DC sitting the 11+ will not have experienced transition.

2. DS's school was in a state of turmoil last year as they didn't know what their fate would be as part of the school organisation review. Staff morale was at an all time low as it was uncertain whether or not they would remain part of an all though system and keep their jobs or move to a 2 tier system and lose them. This was only sorted out at the end of the school year last year.

I believe that both these factors played a part in DS not achieving his potential in the 11+ test.

Does anyone have any advice, success stories or otherwise to share? I'd love to hear your opinions. Am I mad to even consider appealing on these grounds?

Thank you.

If the school is CRGS, this link might be useful for you to see where your DS stands re the waiting list and movement of the list. www.elevenplusexams.co.uk/forum/11plus/viewtopic.php?f=15&t=41676

This link shows the cut off scores, will give you a good idea how far off the mark he actually was
www.elevenplusexams.co.uk/forum/11plus/viewtopic.php?f=15&t=41452

sorry if you've already checked them out, just though it might give you a clearer picture. There does seem to have been quite a bit of movement from the waiting list so all may not be lost

Also taken from the 11 plus forum:

B22. Is it a good idea to submit VR practice papers, and practice SATs papers, as evidence?

a) I doubt whether the results of VR practice papers would be considered valid evidence, unless they have been officially marked and standardised.

b) I don’t think most panels would be happy to interpret SATs marks, and to accept that a ‘practice’ was done under test conditions, without confirmation from the school. They might take the view “If the school wishes to comment on current performance or to provide/update KS2 predictions, it should provide parents with a letter notifying us officially”.

However, if there’s a supportive comment on the paper from the teacher (e.g. “level 5, test conditions, well done!”), it could be useful to show some examples that your child has already been working at level 5.

Thanks drivin. I have already managed to work out from that website that 4 more marks (out of 60) on each paper would have been enough to get him in. Maybe that will be considered too big a gap to try and bridge.

Thanks again drivin, I've been scouring that site. We have favourable practice SATs results from September in Headteacher letter and some more recent ones but not sure if they will be helpful.

Would anyone who knows more than I do like to comment on this:

it looks like DS is the best all rounder academically in his current school (Maths/English/Science). If the GS is not for boys like him, just who is it for??

Thanks

Thank you tiggy, your response is very reasonable and I completely see the point you are making.

There are 338 primary schools in Essex and 500 superselective places so your maths is only slightly out :)

To be picky there is only 120 superselective boys places at CRGS, KEGS now has a catchment area so can be argued to no longer class as superselective. Our primary school, in Colchester, has only sent 2 boys to CRGS in the past 9 years, it is extremely hard to get a place there.

Essexmum69 that puts it into perspective a bit. Do pupils go to the other Essex grammars from your school?

tiggy

On this: Once academic ability is established, it is probably better to move on to all the other reasons this school is so suitable.

The suitability of the school is obviously tied up with DS's academic ability. Is it enough to show that DS is 'top' of his current school? I fear not. Will the panel have access to his 11+ papers from which they might draw some conclusions?

He is a massive lego fan (like most boys his age I guess) and just a few days ago created a superb firing mechanism - very sophisticated. He has been working on it for months and has made a number of different prototypes. DH has photographed it as evidence of DS's ability/interest in engineering - it won't be admissible as any kind of evidence, will it?

Another question for those of you that have sat on appeals panels.

How much research do the panel members do into the appellants case, if any?

Will they only look at what we tell them to look at iykwim?

Would they know what 1 mark away from L6 reading means in terms of the national picture for example?

Why aren't you going to include the letter from the current head teacher? Surely that will provide the best evidence of current academic performance.

Essexmum69 that puts it into perspective a bit. Do pupils go to the other Essex grammars from your school?

Usually 1 or 2 girls per year will get places at Colchester County High, the competition for places has always been less and thus the cut off mark lower. The Chelmsford and Southend Grammar schools are too far from us (and we would be out of catchment) so I am not aware of anyone ever having obtained a place from where I live.

TBH if your DS was 4 marks off in each paper you are on a hiding to nothing trying to prove his academic ability. You would need to prove why he underperformed so dramatically. I'm sure as you've spent time on the 11 plus forum you will realise just how hard it is to win an appeal to Essex grammars. As someone previously said, there are (at least) hundred's of Essex kids who are grammar material, my DD is one of them. in my experience, DDs comp copes with her ability exceptionally well, she and her friends are stretched to the nth degree. That's one of the few advantages of living in a superb selective area, our comp schools are full of kids who could have, should have, would have gone to grammar. Please don't thonkt I'm saying not to appeal, just be very realistic and don't write off how well your DS will do at a non selective.

OP, I have no advice about your appeal. I wish you the best of luck.

If your son is passionate about engineering, and this is the most important thing, more important than the selectivity, then you should know about Sir Charles KAO UTC in Harlow, Essex.

www.sircharleskaoutc.com

It's new, and the aim is to gear kids up for technical specialist/engineering roles in blue chip companies. I believe they take the children in year 10. I know some parents who are super keen, as the top students here are likely to have their university engineering degrees sponsored by employers. I just looked it up for you and notice there is an open day on May 6th.

I hope you get your first choice, but, if not, it's nice to have something else on the back burner.

TBH if your DS was 4 marks off in each paper you are on a hiding to nothing trying to prove his academic ability.

How can that be true though drivin?

His recent mock L6 sats mark puts him in the top

I don't think I made my point very clearly in that last post. What I mean is Under performance shouldn't be seen as lack of ability.

TooMany that school looks v. interesting but unfortunately it is too far away from us. I wonder why Cambridge Uni aren't sponsoring it?

anyone can easily under perform iykwim. DS has a history of under performing.

A Grammar school is a school that takes clever children and gets good exam results out of them. Grammars live and die by their exam results.
It is not in their own interests to be compassionate: underperformance at 11+ may be a precursor of underperformance at GCSE or A Level. Or it may not, but why take the risk? - they will prefer the child with a one-off excuse eg illness or bereavement.

L6 mocks can't put him in the top 1%. That doesn't make sense.

if you have read the 11plus forum, particularly regarding appeals for Essex super selectives, you will see that proving academic ability is of no use unless you can provide firm evidence as to why your DS underperformed by such a large margin. Previous successful appeals on this basis have been supported by strong medical evidence. unfortunately the burden of proof is especially high for these schools. I am not being intentionally negative, but you seem to be relying on your belief that your DS is more deserving when he is in fact no different to the hundreds of other kids who missed out by far less than 8 points, kids who will be just as successful in their SATS. Bottom line is there are not enough places and your DS was just not good enough on the day.

your DS is more deserving

I don't think this drivin but I do think that he may be just as deserving as some who already have a place. The 11+, is not a fair test of academic ability, the system is corrupt and there is not a level playing field.

I got this from another thread on here where there was general agreement with it:

My DD in yr 6 has just gained a place comfortably at a super selective grammar in Essex. She was a combination of mid to high 4s at the end of yr 4.

So for reference, DS had 4a/4b/4b at the end of year 4.

Is it likely that all DC on waiting lists for superselectives have these Y4 results?

It's quite likely that most if those who have missed by a few marks are mid-high level 4 in year 4, yes.

but the system is what it is. Its a level playing field in so much as all the hopefuls get one shot at it. Your DS has not been disadvantaged in any way. He just wasnt as good as the 120 boys that got a place. You seem to be writing off the majority of kids who didnt perform as well on the day. Incidentally I asked my DD (14) how many kids on her maths group sat for one of the super selectives and she said 12 that she knows of (out of a class of 28). She also said as far as she is concerned an A* is the same if gained at a comp or grammar. If you are so concerned about entry to uni your DS could always apply for grammar 6th form entry

I don't think there can be any doubt that the 11+ is not a level playing field. But I think it's a massive step from accepting that to describing the system as corrupt. In its own way a super-selective is fair - the top x number of children who sat one test on one day are given a place.

It's like an Olympic medal - some people have considerable more opportunities to succeed in any given sport (money, time, training facilities, coaches....) but the medals are awarded to the fastest runner on the day no matter how much time and money has been invested into getting them to that point.

And I say this as a staunch supporter of a comprehensive system.