Almost unrestricted choice of Modern Language for yr9. How to choose? Help!

[SpecialistSubject]

So - you're 13 and about to move from prep to senior school. You have to choose one ML to take alongside French. (Grammar reasonably advanced so far, vocab somewhat neglected ...) After yr9 you can carry on with both to GCSE or drop the new ML. (No late changes of mind possible.)

The options are Spanish, Italian, German, Russian, Japanese, Mandarin.

You like, and will continue with, Latin. You're neutral (and damn lazy) on Greek. If your choice doesn't work out you'll have only one ML GCSE / IGCSE (not certain which exam atm.) And you're currently 13 less unenthusiastic about Arts than Sciences so languages are more likely to feature in your future school career.

Your family are dithering. Pros / cons blah blah blah ...

Please advise.

But I would argue (with all disclaimers for the circumstances etc) that for example for a GCSE MFL all it requires to get a higher grade is that bit more effort and then that effort would build resources for the next time effort is required. Of course I realise that most teenagers would n't be thinking that way .

As a grade in an exam to make a candidate stand out, Russian or Chinese are eye catchers at this age. In terms of usefulness for further studies, I would look to the strength of the A level courses as to whether one might continue behind GCSE.
Any of the common modern languages are a good option, simply to show that a student than use their communicative skills well and develop this part of their brain. Contrary to the way some people think it's not that easy to get an A /A* grade in MFL and will be even less so in future as course work is on its way out. There will be more of a focus on actual ability and grammar rather than rote learning and this will affect any student currently in year 8 or below whether they take IGCSE or not.
Spanish and French both have complex grammar structures once you get to a certain level of understanding, in line with many other languages. I speak as a HoD of MFL in an independent school, and someone who foolishly also studied Russian at university level alongside French and Spanish!

There will be more of a focus on actual ability and grammar rather than rote learning

As someone who took equivalent exams in the 70s I have always assumed that any ML exam would focus on "old fashioned" language skills such as reading/comprehension, unseen translation, spontaneous conversation ...

I would feel far more confident in supporting a student to prepare for that kind of exam than for the type I've been reading about on MN over the past few years.

Sauvignon most brighter DCs will breathe a sigh of relief to get rid of the rote learning without purpose and instead be able to use the logic of the tools of grammatical structure for European MFLs. Those also require some rote learning but at least to purpose. One of my DCs had a fantastic 'old style' teaching in MFL grammar when at prep school and is very grateful for it as understanding and using harder constructions has become second nature.

Has DS actually been doing any of these languages already? Do they have a preference? Does the school run "taster" classes for a couple of weeks to enable the kids to make an informed choice?

I think you need a good ear for Mandarin (to distinguish the tones consistently). I was pretty hopeless when I started to learn in my 40s, but my 7 year old daughter seems to find it quite easy (they do a Chinese club after school). She written Chinese is a bit random (she isn't the neatest writer at the best of times).

I did German and French at school, with a crash course in Spanish for work. I struggle to understand some Spaniards (they seem to talk too fast) so, for me, I'd say that German was easier to learn even if the grammar is a bit more complicated.

Spanish is a fairly easy language to learn in that it has a simple grammar and having both Latin and French it would be a doddle. Ditto Italian.

However, language is more than just learning the words. The wonderful thing about learning languages is the cultural aspect, in learning the language you understand culture in a new way, you understand the people of a nation in a new way. I can't explain it, but you could teach someone all about the culture of a nation, any nation, but it is doing so alongside the language that deepens the understanding.

All of the options are useful really, Spanish is widely spoken. Italian perhaps less useful. They all have different angles to them but all useful in terms of business. I was reading an article a little while ago saying that the lack of Russian speakers in diplomatic posts had badly affected our relations with Russia because the lack of cultural understanding led to the UK not understanding the consequences of our poor relationship with the country and not foreseeing the actions Russia would take. It is true that good Russian speakers are in demand. Though as a Russian (and Spanish) grad I'm a little biased . Not that I've used my languages at all, I'm currently training as a midwife . But I do have a lovely set of Harry Potters in Russian and a lovely volume of Pushkin I like to flick through occasionally and read the really short ones and pretend I still now what they mean.

Dh did French and German plus 2 years of Russian but not enough to have his degree named in it. He has gone into project management and there have been times where there has been scope to move his career towards language use though he hasn't done so with small children and of course my training being UK based.

Having language skills earlier on in life is great as although you can easily do languages such as Mandarin or Russian from scratch at university the real benefit comes from doing a degree PLUS having a language so if the skills are there and just need a boost towards fluency then there are many more career options. Dh has found that he needed to develop his skills within the workplace before having ht potential to move towards the languages but of course by that point the languages are rather rusty whereas friends who did business plus language or maths plus language have been able to progress more quickly in their fields. Not that it makes a huge difference a few years down the line really but it does initially.

Has DS actually been doing any of these languages already? Do they have a preference? Does the school run "taster" classes for a couple of weeks to enable the kids to make an informed choice?

No. Currently French, Latin, Greek. All being taught at beyond Common Entrance level.

No. (As indicated above expects a challenge, expects to (be) work(ed) very hard.) Hopes it will be fun as well.)

No. Decision needs to be made before joining new school.

Very naive specialist to think that pupils today embrace the grammar! I for one will be glad to get rid of course work and all those who achieved grades out of sync with their actual effort and ability due to the vagaries of the course work system. Spontaneous writing and speaking is back!!!!

It is very interesting to get glimpses into alternative universes.............

Spanish. If DC is already pretty good at French and Latin it will be pretty easy and a quickly banked GCSE...
How depressing. Yes Spanish is easy if all you're interested in is pot hunting . My neighbour's DC ,with a similar wide choice, chose Russian over Spanish on the basis that it was an existing new challenge and he was curious.

Why not take advantage over the privilege of not having the choice of languages not available in other places? Every school now teaches Spanish because it is easy and because the parents perceive it as 'useful'.

Choosing one GCSE out of 10, 11 or even 12 because it's easier is not pot hunting- that's just daft!

By the reasoning of some people on here, my Ds's fiirst choice of GCSE should have been Art-because he really struggled with it in years 7 and 8 and the challenge would have been good for him.............

Some languages are easier to learn than others. Some teachers/departments are stronger than others. The language hierarchy of our (or our forebears') youth is not relevant to our DCs' future. Some countries are much nicer/more accessible to visit than others.

These are the things I would bear in mind when choosing a language to learn at school.

arcangela you seem to be suggesting that parents are wrong in their perception of Spanish as useful...of course it's useful! all foreign languages are useful. Why do you think it is not?

People are very snobby about Spanish. I think it's because of the Costa Del Sol and Eldorado. Maybe if they though Alhambra and Marquez.........

It's also easy to speak badly and Sapnish-speakers are very tolerant of those who try so you can get a false sense of how well you are doing, but it takes a fair amount of effort to speak well- imperfect subjunctive anyone? My class of ab initio students at Cambridge did not find it a total walk in the park.

Oh I don't think Arcangela was disputing the "usefulness" of Spanish - merely suggesting that it might be chosen for practical rather than purely intellectual reasons.

I agree that it would be a shame to reject the rare in favour of the widely available. (All else being equal.) But I'm a sucker for the airy-fairy so can't rely on my own perceptions.

• I mean chosen as a school subject. Spanish is obviously as culturally valuable as any other language in the outside world.

Spanish is a beautiful language, and it is widely spoken. I don't think it should be dismissed.

The more I think about this, the more I think people should choose a language because they like how it sounds and/or because they are interested in the culture(s) associated with it. Unless they're choosing a language as a necessary evil, I'm which case they should choose the easiest option.

As stated further up the thread, I have studied quite a range of languages over the years. I quite fancy learning Brazilian Portuguese next. :)

You are lucky to have such a wide choice - most schools are now sticking to French and Spanish and even French is on the wane.

Very, very, very lucky Mrscrep.

Out of interest, does anyone on this thread know if there is a website that would help me to arrange a homestay-type experience in France for me and my dd?

I got so much out of school exchange visits when I was a child, but none of the schools round here seem to do them any more, due to safeguarding concerns. They do trips to France, but it isn't the same, so I was wondering about me and dd going to stay with a French family instead. Any thoughts/ideas?

A French woman was trying to arrange such a trip earlier this week, sorry but I can't remember whether it was in Chat or somewhere else.

Thanks east, I'll try to do a search. However, would prefer to use some sort of established organisation if it exists, as it's difficult to know with private arrangements...

I didn't know of anything specific Kampeki but this came up when I googled "Home stays France". People appear to host rather than just provide a place. No idea if any good.