Almost unrestricted choice of Modern Language for yr9. How to choose? Help!

[SpecialistSubject]

So - you're 13 and about to move from prep to senior school. You have to choose one ML to take alongside French. (Grammar reasonably advanced so far, vocab somewhat neglected ...) After yr9 you can carry on with both to GCSE or drop the new ML. (No late changes of mind possible.)

The options are Spanish, Italian, German, Russian, Japanese, Mandarin.

You like, and will continue with, Latin. You're neutral (and damn lazy) on Greek. If your choice doesn't work out you'll have only one ML GCSE / IGCSE (not certain which exam atm.) And you're currently 13 less unenthusiastic about Arts than Sciences so languages are more likely to feature in your future school career.

Your family are dithering. Pros / cons blah blah blah ...

Please advise.

Mmm ... I imagine there would be language trips. Should that influence a decision?

What might be needful for someone studying philosophy or architecture as an undergraduate? (Surely I'll never pose a more ridiculous question?)

German is the most popular language with employers (followed by French and then Spanish). Spanish on the other hand is very like French so easy to pick up if you already know that (and Latin).

I did French and Latin from year 7 and got an A in Spanish O level in a year in 6th form.

I like German best tho

Here's an article on the 9 best countries to find work as an architect.
www.archdaily.com/243925/the-9-best-countries-for-architects-to-find-work/
Sounds like Spanish features heavily. French or German for Switzerland.

Greek would be good for Philosophy surely??

This suggests Spanish again with Latin America being given as a good base for jobs.

Bertie - You're spoiling my day ...

OP do you want us to say Mandarin? I do think that would be a big ask ab initio in Yr 9.

I'm not sure what I'd like to hear Clary - truthfully. Its a little hard, personally, to forget that in my day (several centuries ago) only the lower sets did Spanish + French rather than Latin + German + French for O' level. So I suppose I slightly feel Spanish is something one picks up for holidays. This is wrong and I am endeavouring to improve my attitude.

I'm certain the teen would have a better experience learning Mandarin at school than at evening classes. But I'm very drawn to the rarity of Japanese. Or the prospect of Dostoyevsky not in translation.

(If this sounds all about me - it's partly because the child really doesn't much care atm. So we're trying to stretch our aged necks around corners to see what's coming. Not that people will need language in the next few decades anyway - your implanted Apple device will talk to mine and that will be that ...)

Italian. Not as practical, I'm sure, but lovely and easier to get your mouth around than Spanish. And if he does it and enjoys it, can pick up Spanish later.

I don't know whether this helps or not specialist as I said DD's school is a language specialist she has been there since reception. She did french in reception, years 1 and 2. Mandarin was added in year 1 and has continue through to now in year 6. French then stops till year 5 and a term in year 6. Spanish in year 3 and a term in year 6 and Italian in year 4 and a term in year 6.

French is her strongest language, but that is because we visit native speaking friends a lot and they just talk French to her, Mandarin, Italian and Spanish are all equal she is strong in all three.
As I said she has to make a choice for next year and it will probably mandarin that the teacher anticipates she will carry to GCSE. She will probably pick up French again in year 8 also to carry to GCSE.
If he is unenthusiastic he is likely to better at a Latin language.

Specialist I have one DC who really enjoys Greek (with Latin) and the other ditto for Mandarin both several years in.
The one doing Mandarin actually enjoys the penmanship of the characters (I imagine that would be similar for Japanese and Arabic) but has also had the discipline for the rote learning (more of this than required for European languages)
The one doing Greek says that once the alphabet is second nature (usually by the second year) it is a more instinctive language than Latin. He prefers the logic of Latin but the literature of Greek land for both the history etc.
Personally if I was your DS and not a scientist, I would choose Arabic, widely spoken, future possibilities for philosophy and history. If he is a possibly architect he might also enjoy the penmanship.

Thanks Lonecat - that sounds an interesting school!

It's true that more of the same would be much less effort. But otoh there's the youthful delight in strange, new signs (this was the case with Greek anyway) and perhaps in language concepts (as one finds with Mandarin).

I take summer's point about insight into different cultures - particularly as there will probably be native-speaking classmates in both the familiar and the unfamiliar languages. (And interesting to discover that the "ordinary" exam is not open to native speakers.)

Sorry, missed the fact that Arabic is not being offered (I thought it was for your DS's school but maybe later on). In which case I would go for Japanese or Mandarin for a year. If he is not a linguist no problem doing only one MFL but will have had a brief insight into how those languages are put together plus the culture.

DS was in a similar situation & did Italian as he doesn't like languages & he thought that would be the easiest having studied Latin for years. He gave up both at the end of year 9 but has kept French (he could have given up French & kept Italian and or Latin).

Mandarin GCSE is open to native speakers but the highest grade is still attainable by a lot of non native speakers. PreU is however being increasingly adapted for non native speakers rather than A level.

X'd you summer - that's a very helpful report.

Yes - penmanship might well be an attraction! Sadly Arabic won't be available (I think) until after GCSE.

There's the separate option to continue with or drop Greek; I suspect the show-off-y element of performing in Greek drama (and looking cool with a volume of Sophocles under one's arm) might clinch that ...

X posted as well but you get the general drift. A Chinese saying 'choosing is a sickness of the mind'. I never understood that really but sometimes too much choice is not an advantage .

If he's doing Latin & French, then Spanish or Italian should come easily - I did Latin & French to A-level and could get the gist of written Spanish or Italian without having had a single lesson (spoken was a different matter.)

If he's done Latin, then he'll already have an understanding of cases - that gave me a great advantage over people in my German class who hadn't taken a language like that.

But the others would also be fun...
(Glad it's not my decision. )

Hmm ... Now that the website is back I see no reference to sixth form Arabic. I may have seen it in the printed info - or I may have invented that possibility. But it could be different in a few years anyway.

Thinking aloud (made harder by having studied / dipped into all but Japanese myself from the ML list, and having adored Latin):

I was rather tempted by Panama and Brazil from Bertie's architects list (thank you) but still think Spanish could be mastered outwith the vast machinery of school.

I have not so far found a pressing need for Russian outside literature.

Mandarin is always urged for the purposes of business - and businesses need buildings. If China is still forging a new Empire across Africa in ten years it might be a good option for an architect.

I think when term starts the teen should be directed to enquire further from native speaker pals ...

Spanish would be the easier option - and should result in a good GCSE grade with less effort than the others.

But if you're asking purely from a life experience perspective - to broaden his horizons, then why not Japanese? It's much simpler phonetically than mandarin, and also has the advantage of having phonetic alphabets rather than solely relying on the pictograms. The phonetic alphabets are quite fun to learn. If the school has a good programme then they'd get him up to speed in 3 years?

If it turns out to be something he really loves then he has an amazing USP when entering the job market?

ps - am slightly biased as have spent time in Japan. :-)

I'd go for a non romance language as they're sooo different. I have just started to learn Gaelic and I can't believe how blinkered I've been having only spoken/learnt english, latin, german and spanish.

But then i've always been one for mind-expanding and challenging subjects and avoided any suggestion of choosing something cause it's easier. I would NEVER choose or advise the choice of something because it's easier. Ever.

Oooh - don't stop there fleur - tell me more.

I remember reading an article (in the FT maybe) by an English writer living in Japan who, even with a Japanese wife, felt totally isolated with his halting Japanese. I have a romantic vision of it as a safe and beautiful place - would it be impossible to enjoy as a non-native speaker?

How long would it take for Japanese literature / magazines to become accessible? Music? TV? Things that would be interesting for a reasonably ambitious teenager.

(We can sort of take it for granted that teaching in every language will be excellent and well supported with school extracurricular stuff - trips, lectures, other events.)

Mandarin also has a phonetic alphabet pinyin but for GCSE they have to learn the characters. I suspect Japanese GCSE is the same.
specialist I think the choice would be dictated by whether he prefers the idea of visiting Japan and its culture or mandarin speaking
countries.

I agree that for a bright teenager a bit of risk -taking re MFL is good for the challenge and using a different part of the brain, even if it is only for a year and gives very basic language skills. TBH GCSEs in European MFLs also give very basic language skills if taught for the exam.

It sounds like DSs school, in which case I would choose Russian because of the teachers .

The Japanese phonetic alphabet is used alongside the pictograms though - not instead of. You cannot have pictograms without the phonetic symbols? I don't think it's the same for pinyin?

Young children tend to use the phonetic alphabet exclusively and gradually incorporate the pictograms as they are learned - and I imagine that it how any Japanese course in this country would work too.

There are 200 pictograms to learn at GCSE level - in addition to the 80 or so phonetic symbols.

In terms of accessibility - I'd say it is as accessible as any language with a keen learner? Watching TV and reading should be do-able in the same timeframes. Understanding Japanese culture will take longer - but it's a fascinating journey.

If he chose German, he'd be able to read Kant and Nietzsche in the original, if doing philosophy later.

Easy win, Spanish.

fleur that's interesting about Japanese being learnt with phonetic and pictograms in parallel. Does tonality come into it at all?