Very Pushy Parents

[pinklink]

My other half is a teacher, a good one too. He is always marking planning and works late doing after school additional lessons. Since leaving the local comprehensive he joined a private school in September. He has been told on a few occasions by parents that they "pay his salary". His view is that he would rather go back to the comp and deal with difficult children who can change, but are initially the way they are due to challenging home environments. He said nothing can be done to solve the problem of difficult parents. He has had parents scream at him because their dc was moved down one set. His words were "they do more damage by pushing us constantly, it's tiring, degrading and when that happens I feel worthless. I struggle to put together a decent lesson after things like this happen."

He also felt that parents in the comp respected teachers but in the private school they see it as customer service where they buy the product.

I have a dd who I put through a private school, I let the school make the decisions with what group she would be in, I never interfered.

I struggle to empathasise with those, who I am sure are on here too, think they know their child's ability in the subject better than the professionals.

My other half is now thinking of resigning, but feels guilty knowing the school as do many other schools, struggle to find maths teachers.

Leave the teachers alone folks. Let them do what they need to.

pinklink

I'm sorry about how your DH is feeling, but there are always two sides to a story. My brother went to a private school for a while, and when you pay, you tend to have the expectation that teachers there would go beyond what teachers in the state sector would do.

Nevertheless, there was one teacher couple, who were very "can't, can't, can't". My brother was an intelligent child (think Mensa), but didn't "get" certain things teachers taught - e.g the simple notion of division. Because of this, they probably thought he wasn't bright. However, my teenage self managed to teach him in minutes to divide figures into the millions, by making the whole thing a little more fun (I invented 'magical' stories - don't ask!). I remember he was really proud of himself. Weird that a teenager could outdo a teacher, right?

At some point, when my mum had enough of the female teacher, she complained. Turns out she wasn't the first one to complain, and the couple was eventually let go a few months later, because they fostered a culture of negativity, and didn't help the children become the best they could possibly be. When you pay, you expect a teacher to be able to make an "average" child "good", a "good" child "excellent", etc. Isn't that why so many people complain that private school kids may (some say undeservedly) get better grades than at state school?

The same couple could have taught at my (state) school and gotten away with it, because my parents weren't paying customers...

Some time the professionals are not always right. My DD was being labelled as not pushing herself when in truth she was dyslexic. I as her parent stood up and fought for her against the professionals.

Why should the parents of children going to state school not have the same expectations as those going to private? Should I be telling dd she will have to be content with inadequacies in her education because we don't pay?

FWIW, I think education, particularly maths, could do with dragging into the 21st century; using computers for the bulk of children's learning and freeing up teachers to teach where children need further help or more depth of understanding. Then they could advance at their own pace.

Well, as you were yourself a parent to a private school pupil and did not behave like that, you know your DH is dealing with a specific difficulty, not something characteristic of the sector.

It is very unusual for a secondary to have such a high level of parent involvement (though of course moving sets would be noticeable in any school).

And yes, if he is not happy at that specific school (for this or any other reason) he should move on.

I think this is a management problem. Why is the headteacher of the school not backing your husband? And making it clear to parents that academic issues eg setting are the preserve of the school?

There's nothing wrong with a parent being disappointed their child has been put down a set - indeed that can potentially be good for the child if they are prepared to work with the child to get his or her standard up to the level it was. Is your DH responding with "well, he's in the middle set now and that's it, my word is final" or "well, at present his marks don't warrant it, but here's what he can do to be moved back up"?

We pay I don't view myself as a paying costumer but the relationship between me and the teaching staff at DS2's school is very different to the one between me and the teachers at DS1's school. They are for start just more friendly at parent teacher meeting, I feel they genuinely listen to any concerns I have, and genuinely want what's best for my DS. This is not my experience of the state sector, and the staff are not defensive I feel it's much more of a partnership. It's a completely different culture IME. Parents in independent ed. are unlikely to "leave teachers alone" if there is something they're not happy about, they are likely to raise it with the staff involved they will often want to discuss decisions made. But isn't this what being in a partnership is all about? You can raise your concerns and feel your opinions are listened too, and vice versa.
Secondly if you pay often a very considerably sum your going to be more demanding than if you don't, most are expecting something better than they believe their DC would/was getting in the state sector, whether it be Olympic level swimming coaching or better math lessons with their DC in what they believe is the right set. It is also obviously the duty of a parent to speak out for their child when they think something is wrong.
On the other hand many parents are completely unrealistic about their child's ability, and there is never any excuse for rudeness. There are inevitably some pretty ghastly parents out there who'd talk members of staff in a particularly unpleasant way.
I maybe not the best person to comment of course we've not had many issues to make any kind of fuss about and I'm also reliably informed I'm a low maintenance parent some apparently email staff constantly about endless trivia.

My relatives who are teachers have foud the opposite - mostly supportive parents in the private sector, a combination of pushy parents and parents who don't give a shit in the state sector.

I'm startled that a decent private school would struggle to find teachers if he left - is he just working at a really bad school? There are bad schools in the private sector too.

My daughters old state school has had to introduce a "code of conduct" for parents because of the way some parents are communicating with the teachers and quite often in front of lots of children. Mostly using aggressive angry and inappropriate language!

Have not yet seen that type of behaviour at her new school, and have found the teachers to be much more interested in the children and more approachable. Which I would expect. It does make me chuckle though when I hear the odd complaint about minor communication issues, they have obviously never experienced the state school system where communication was very poor. In my experience anyway.

If he is unhappy he should leave. I'd be amazed if an independent school struggled to maths teachers, normally they are inundated with applications form disaffected state teachers.
I am a supply teacher, my subject is not maths or science, but usually teach those subjects in state school because they cannot get enough teachers.
Even if he isn't a particularly good teacher he should just go back to state where he will easily find a job.

96% of the parents are ok in the private school, they will accept their child has moved down a set but obviously want discussion which my DH and other teachers are happy to do. However, the rest, well there has been parents shouting in his face. They tell him they pay is salary, when in actual fact their fees do not cover his salary. They refuse to accept their child would be better supported in the set below, they will come out with every excuse for their child not to move. When the response from the teacher is that they have to treat all children fairly, then they are accused of not treating their child as an individual. These parents, who are in the minority seem to think they are buying a product and this is what he is dissatisfied with. These parents sometimes do get there way with teachers who do not stand their ground. They also take up a lot of their time.
Maths teachers are difficult to find everywhere, every school struggles, independent schools in particular because they expect extra curricular activities from them and most are not happy doing this. The pay is only a little higher than the state sector, yet the days are longer. Most Maths/Science graduates choose the state sector to teach in.

I find it strange that my DH has walked into a completely different world, I as a parent had no idea that the pushy parents took up so much time to the detriment of the teaching.

Oh and yes they have a history teacher teaching Maths, so private education does not attract the maths/science teachers.

It does worry me.

If their fees don't cover his pay I would be leaving sharpish as the school will not survive much longer.

private education does not attract the maths/science teachers.

That's just rubbish, I'm afraid. It's the school your DH is teaching at which is not attracting the maths/science teachers (and I'm not surprised given the ethos you describe, I wouldn't want to work there either).

DD's school won't have anyone teaching a subject they don't have a degree in, ever. They employed a new maths teacher who wasn't up to it - and once they'd decided to replace him, there was a new one in post within a few days. Not some make-do - a fully qualified teacher with a maths degree.

skylark2- how do you know? There are numerous articles written that ALL schools struggle to get maths/science teachers and sorry to put this information to you, that means private schools in particular. Go to a teachers website www.tes.co.uk and you will find out. Just because they replaced a teacher which btw all schools do, does not mean they are qualified to teach maths. Private schools are also notorious for taking graduates from various subjects but they have never taught before ie no teaching qualification. The state sector is surrounded by red tape so they cannot do that.

Open your eyes!

Lonecatwithkitten
-love the name btw, one parents fees does not cover any teachers salary in any school! They do get paid more than 15k a year for their skills.

Take a look at the bit about private schools.
www.telegraph.co.uk/education/educationnews/10775185/Unqualified-teachers-hired-to-take-lessons-on-the-cheap.html

DH is composing his resignation letter, he just got off the phone with his previous boss, he's going back.

From your description it does sound as though he's at a particularly poor school, but as someone else upthread pointed out, one school is not representative of the whole private sector.
You'll find difficult people in every walk of life. I used to be a nurse and most patients and relatives were absolutely lovely, but there was a minority who were verbally or physically abusive. It's not acceptable, but it happens.
I hope your husband is happy back at his old school.

FYI the school he is at is ranked in the top 50 private schools in the country. They have amazing results. GirlsTimesThree, you are right there are difficult people everywhere, less so in a state school than a private. Money does not buy you common sense.

well, I should think you might get 4% of horrible parents in any school, state or independent. I was at a private school and my parents weren't like that at all. And DH was too, and his parents were so unpushy that they allowed his school to say that his younger brother wasn't bright enough and removed him. BIL is by far and away the brightest of them all, but I guess he was too hard to teach so the school wanted rid of him. FIL regrets not being a pushy parent at that moment to this day.

What may seem supportive to some, may seem pushy and irritating to another, it's all about individual perception. I wouldn't be happy if my son was moved down a set, I'd want to know why and what I could do as a parent to support my son. If he's struggling then I'd like to know. If this is putting your DH off working there then maybe he shouldn't be working there. I'm not a teacher but I'd rather the parents were supportive then didn't give a hoot.

I'm not saying all private schools are perfect. You're the one who is making sweeping generalisations. Thank you, yes, my eyes are open - neither of my DC's schools employ unqualified teachers - and their definition of "qualified" involves having a degree in the suject they teach as well as having a teaching qualification. Education degrees don't count.

How many teachers at the state school your DS is going back to are teaching a subject they don't have a degree in? 10% ? 30? 50? More?

"Just because they replaced a teacher which btw all schools do, does not mean they are qualified to teach maths."

Yes. It does. That's the school's policy, rigorously applied. Stop assuming that all schools are exactly like those you have encountered, because it simply is not true.

Your DH took a job at a rubbish private school without apparently doing any research into how good it was first. His loss if he takes that to mean all private schools are rubbish. You (and he, apparently) need to get beyond thinking that your personal experience applies to every single situation.

I did comment on a previous private school thread that those who thought that the more private school parents who moved their DCs to state schools the better for the state system might not realise that certain pushy private school parents could be a drain on teachers' time and resources and therefore have a negative rather than positive influence for the state school. This illustrates my point. However I agree that strong management is needed.

I'm sure there are some independent schools with teachers not teaching their degree subject but this also happens in the state sector as well a friend who's a teacher is currently teaching English despite having a degree in geography.
So many claim their school is in the top 50 that it's just not possible. Another friend taught at a very well known South London day school frequently mentioned on here. She said the school was always telling the staff that it was in the top 20 which slightly surprised me but on careful comparison of their exam results with those that are in the top 20 she discovered it was in the top 80.
I'm sure by the sound of things your DH will be happier back in his old job, good luck to him.

LadySybilLikesCake- DH welcomed parents who took an interest in setting. The vast majority were happy with the justification given. But there were the 4% who did not want their child to go down a set despite being the lowest in the class, and also even worse, some would demand their child moved up a set immediately even though they were the average student in their current set. The latter were the majority and after all the data that was shown to them on their child that would prove it was not right, they would then attack the teachers capability of teaching, i.e they had no respect for the professionals judgement, and would do anything to try and get what they want.
Good teachers get fed up of fighting these battles. And unfortunately in private schools management are often too scared to tell such parents where to go because they need their money. State schools as my DH says, tell them to go elsewhere if they don't like it.
So this culture of pushy parents is more prominent and toxic in private schools.

I have never behaved like that.
My children's father moved from state to private sector and found the parents much much nicer by the way so don't everyone read this thread and believe private school parents are nastier than state schoolers. It can be quite the converse!!! He would never go back to a state school again it was so much worse to teach in one.

I have never asked for my children to move a set. We leave it up to the school as do most parents. However one reason privat schools are hugely better than state is because the teachers and school are in a sense honed by the parents and accountable to them. that is whty the private sector is best at just about everything always - and it is that parental pressure which in a sense leads to the 8% of children including mine who are in private schools getting 50% of the best univesrity places and making up 80% of the judiciary etc. In other words the fact the pink husband is a little irked is part of what one buys.